| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Thu, 10 November 2005 13:59
|
 |
OK, here's the deal, I went for a drive tonight in my Supra and the clutch decided to stop working for no apparent reason. I only got about 500m from my house, opened up the throttle in 2nd gear (no clutch slipping or anything like that), went to change into third and I noticed the clutch pedal was much harder than it was before, in fact I couldn't push it down to the floor! The gearbox popped out of second easy enough but then didn't want to go into third. The reason for this is because the clutch wasn't disengaging any more, no matter what I tried.
Anyway, I eventually got it home after an amusing clutchless drive through the suburbs, and checked all the obvious things. Clutch pedal mechanism is fine, master cylinder reservoir is full, no leaks anywhere, and the clutch fork moves as normal when a friend is pushing the clutch pedal in. Obviously the hydraulic system is working, but the clutch still won't disengage at all.
So what's left? Broken clutch fork? Something dodgy with the throwout bearing? Collapsed pressure plate? I suppose I won't know until I drop the gearbox (again! BAH!) but I'm looking for ideas here, this one has me confused! 
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Thu, 10 November 2005 14:21
|
|
well....
i had a similar prob, but i also had the pedal go very soft..
the friction plate had cracked thru such that 1/4 of it decided to try and escpw the pressure plate... of course there is not enough room to get out, but it got wedged between the rest of the friction plate and the pressure plate (so it effectively never engaged) and because the broken bit got wedged under the unbroken bit, the pressueplate was pushed higher than normal, so that pedal felt soft (it was kinda locked in fully disengage position)
as for not being ble to push pedal to floor.... maybe being a hydraulic clutch, the same has happened, but onthe return stroke, instead of the cable joined pedal getting soft, the hyd sucked in more fluid, and now is trying to push it past it:s natural limits....
if you have any kind of inspection cover, see if you can see any evidence of either frictionplate explosion, or of the pressure plate being stuck in open position...
suxors 
good luck 
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Thu, 10 November 2005 14:22
|
|
oh, did you have the fun of engaging it into first from a dead stop by grinding 1st gear synchro??? i'm gonna open that box one day and see just what it did 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Thu, 10 November 2005 14:28
|
|
Actually I managed to get it all the way home without stopping... and then as I was trying to drive up the driveway, the wind blew the gate shut when I was no more than a metre away so I had to abort.  Me and my bad luck!
Your theory of an exploded friction plate is a good one, as good as any I can think of anyway. There is an inspection hole but it's too small to see much... I'll have to drop the gearbox to get any idea what's going on in there.
Perfect timing too, for the first time in several weeks I actually need my car for something (friend's wedding in Toowoomba on Saturday), and now I can't get there. If it had happened any other week it wouldn'r have been a big deal, but nooooo....
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Thu, 10 November 2005 14:41
|
|
ahh that sucks
look in there at a gap in the pressure plate where you can see the side of the friction plate and the front edge of the pressure plates...metal bit...... (unless you have a cover that has no gaps?)
maybe at one of the gaps you can see if the metal face of the pressure plate is further away than normal??....
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Thu, 10 November 2005 14:43
|
|
oh yeah, mine happened just as i was just leaving parramatta after a job interview... to start the next day
i think friction plates are highly tuned into our life cycles and know when we are busy 
|
|
|
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 02:32
|
|
Did you re-use the old pressure plate last time you changed the clutch? Regardless, I have heard of pressure plates caving in, and apparently that's pretty much what happens - the clutch is permanently engaged.
Poor norbie off the road again!
Is it V161 time yet?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 02:41
|
|
same thing happened to me at a sprint shifted down and couldn't engage any gear as it turned out a segment of the clutch plate broke off and jammed the pressure plate
i drove home from the sprint clutchless but able to change gears started car up in first got pulled over by cops for displaying a competition number great fucking day didnt even complete one lap
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 02:55
|
|
Thanks for the input guys. A damage report shall be forthcoming on Sunday. 
|
|
|
Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 02:57
|
|
yeah my pressure plate died
the retaining springs broke on my exedy HHD
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 03:26
|
|
| gianttomato wrote on Fri, 11 November 2005 13:41 |
started car up in first
|
I remember a fond night spent doing this for the 10 minute drive home after my slave cyl shat itself. the 3-4 times I had to do that cannot have been good for the starter!
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 07:18
|
|
its quite incredible the torque of those little motors to not only be able to fight the rapid compression of the engine, but also to move an entire car at the same time....
I have never had to try that clutchless 1st trick, but by the sounds of it its porbably not much fun at all
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 09:43
|
|
|
starter motor is how you get old VW's home when you run out of fuel - 3rd gear and crank away - life of starter motor dramatically shortens but get moving.
|
|
|
Location:
Uki NSW
Registered:
November 2005
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Fri, 11 November 2005 13:11
|
|
|
HAHA that brings back memories. Me and my mate got a free rodeo tray back with no tray or anything, it had bald tyres and weighed next to nothing. We ended up getting it bogged and it then ran out of petrol. We ended up having to drive it out by the started motor, and it was still spinning!!
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sat, 12 November 2005 01:16
|
|
Hmmm... this is a weird problem. I had exactly the same thing in my sprinter about 2 months ago. Its not nice having to use the starter every time at a red light.
The cluch pedal went extremely hard and the friction point of the clutch felt like it moved up a fair bit (ie the pedal only had to be pushed in a little to disengage it) then I just lost it all together clutch was permenantly engaged.
But my problem went away overnight and I haven't had it since (touch wood), I parked the car when I got home and went to investigate the problem in the morning and it was fine.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 13 November 2005 05:27
|
|
update?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 13 November 2005 08:22
|
|
Nothing to report. I had to mow the lawn (all this damn rain is making it grow lie a bastard ) and by the time I was done I couldn't be bothered getting under a car and pulling a gearbox out, especially in this heat. So basically, I'm lazy.
If I get motivated I may have a crack at it during the week.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 13 November 2005 08:33
|
|
you need something more serious like my new clutch
ok i just like showing it off because its so sexy
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 13 November 2005 09:42
|
|
|
have had this happen on a couple of mates cars now, usually with PBR clutch plates where the retaining metal for the damper springs rips off and the spring comes loose, then jams the pressure plate from being able to release the clutch plate.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Mon, 14 November 2005 02:17
|
|
yeah i'd say collapsed pressure plate... my ss ute did the same thing.. although it was under warranty... i drove it home clutchless (and it copped a flogging too) and then made them tow truck it to the dealer the next morning.. (which was not nearly as far from home as where the clutch actually died)
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 04:24
|
|
I finally got around to fixing my broken-arse clutch yesterday. Many thanks to Wilbo for coming around and helping me re-install the gearbox, which as most of you know is a very fun job.
Anyway, turns out one of the tabs holding the springs in the friction plate snapped, which let the spring pop out and jam the clutch mechanism. Fortunately the flywheel and pressure plate weren't damaged, although they're both a bit worn now. So I threw in a stock W58 friction plate, which I think GiantTomato donated when I bought the flywheel off him a few years ago (thanks Dave!) and now it drives again.
The clutch slips like a bastard with any more than 5psi boost, but at least I can get around now. Being forced to drive around like a grandma is good motivation to get the Getrag installed. Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later - I just need to find a cheap (or preferably free) 18R-C so I can get my Celica back on the road, then I'll be free to pull the Supra apart.
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 12:38
|
|
|
thats pretty bodgy!!! at least it wasn't part of the friction material eating chucks out of pressure plate tho...
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 12:55
|
|
|
farrrk... push for a refund due to design fault!"
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 12:59
|
|
|
I'm wondering, just for my own curiosity. How is the pressure plate and flywheel looking after being used with the button clutches? Wouldn't happen to have snapped pictures?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 13:23
|
|
| -==L=a=N=c=E==- wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 23:59 |
I'm wondering, just for my own curiosity. How is the pressure plate and flywheel looking after being used with the button clutches? Wouldn't happen to have snapped pictures?
|
Pressure plate looked fantastic (IMHO), has definite wear (significant wear ridge) however. No heat marks.
Cheers
Wilbo
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 13:28
|
|
|
Yup, the flywheel and PP looked a whole lot better than the ones I pulled out of the old Supra with a 6M and stock clutch. There was no way that clutch could slip, so no slip = no heat. As mentioned there was a fairly significant ridge on the PP, but you would expect a button clutch with harder friction material to wear through the metal faster.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 13:39
|
|
Ah ok, that is comforting to know.
Cause with my button clutch i can slip it a little bit, but only when im parking the car, does that come useful.
We'll see how much power it'll take before slipping though
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth.
Registered:
April 2005
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 13:54
|
|
ive seen a button clutch -and- flywheel been destroyed in a wrx from just ONE night....
musnt slip button clutches 
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
October 2004
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Sun, 20 November 2005 20:41
|
|
lance: a well designed button will take a hell of a lot of punishment and power.. in my GSR it chirped all 4 into second with 5 people in the car
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Mon, 21 November 2005 19:56
|
|
| Norbie wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 15:24 |
Being forced to drive around like a grandma is good motivation to get the Getrag installed. Hopefully that will happen sooner rather than later - I just need to find a cheap (or preferably free) 18R-C so I can get my Celica back on the road, then I'll be free to pull the Supra apart.
|
something like that norbs
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Mon, 21 November 2005 22:54
|
|
|
Yes, something like that but without the home-made bits.
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Tue, 22 November 2005 00:52
|
|
Yeah I had this problem with my Lancer. It just went pop, and I couldn't get it to disengage anymore.
This was only 8 months after getting the clutch replaced, so it was still under warranty. Took it back to them, and they replaced it free. They said a spring had come lose and had jammed it engaged, but I didn't get to see the actual clutch.
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: WTF happened to my clutch?
|
Wed, 23 November 2005 05:35
|
|
|
Jeremy... i cannot believe you are having problems finding an 18RC!!!!!
|
|
|
