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Registered:
October 2005
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So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Tue, 15 November 2005 22:56
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I was bored yesterday, so to keep my brain entertained I was looking around at some online pics. I found an ae95 4wd wagon with a 4agze, this made me think. The gearbox is a huge part of the problem in a 4wd, and that seems to be solved, so what else is different?
Dropped past a wreckers during lunch.
Seems the ae95 tunnel is about the same size as an ae82/92 tunnel, with the added bonus that the ae95 crossmember will bolt onto an ae92 with no mods. It wont bolt onto an ae82, but it doesnt look that difficult to make something up.
So that's the front half sorted fairly easily.
What about the ass end?
Well the ae82 runs a trailing arm, dual lower wishbone and a strut.
The GT4 celica runs... a trailing arm, dual lower wishbone and a strut. The hub looks to be a bolt on item.
That's hub, handbrake, rear end suspension sorted in 1 swoop.
I havent looked at the celica diff housing, but I imagine that making a diff hangar would be a fairly easy task with a decent welder. So really it's a matter of CV joint clearence. If that's no good, the idea is screwed.
A tailshaft shouldnt be a huge issue either since it's got no vertical movement to worry about.
Final issue is losing about 15L of fuel tank.
So, really, it comes down to
1) does the gt4 hub bolt on
2) do the cv's have enough clearance
3) can a diffhangar be made easily enough
4) will the fuel tank be too small
I figured I'd post this here, because I wanna see what people think, and if there's someone mad enough to do it 
I dont have the cash atm otherwise I'd seriously be contemplating it.
It'd be a very fun car to make/drive that's for sure.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
August 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 05:19
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it would probably be very hard to get the conversion right, without causing vibrations in teh drivetrain, doesnt seem to be worth the effort if you ask me. 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 05:33
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AE95 definitely exists, and AE85 probably does too...
just import one from Hokkaido
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 05:56
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They're both wagons.
The ae85 is a 3a powered north-south layout and a live axle.
The ae95 is a 4a powered east-west layout with a live axel.
The ae92 front floorpan looks about the same as the ae95 but the rear is vastly different to suit the live axel. The ae82 is very similar to the 92 with minor differences.
What I'm proposing is taking the east-west gearbox from the ae95, the hubs from the rear of the GT4 celica, which has a quite similar rear end to the ae82, a diff with custom housing, modded fuel tank, and some drive shafts and mating them together on an ae82/92.
I dont get what seems so unrealistic about this idea. Are you just writing the idea off before reading it?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 06:29
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i'm saying...
import a 4WD SEDAN or HATCH from Hokkaido 
not a wagon..
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 09:32
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I'd love to see under that car
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 09:47
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well, it was a few months ago that i snapped it, but there are plenty of old shitboxes like it around...
if i have camera handy, and there is not too much snow on the ground, i'll take a couple of happy snaps next time i see one.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 10:02
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I have thought about this also --> AE92 GT4 , use 3sge and running gear.
I had the idear about the ae95 but when i saw i was a live axle rear i thought WHY go from what ii have to a live axle.
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Registered:
October 2005
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 11:07
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i dont think the ae92's have space for a centerdiff, so thats ganna have to be done to?
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 12:19
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uh no the centre diff is part of the gearbox.
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 12:22
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transfer case?
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 12:37
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Wait.. why are you asking me? you HAVE an ae95 - go look underneath. You should see a gearbox at the front and a diff at the rear. There is no seperate centre diff.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 23:02
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I was thinking about an SE95 a while ago, my solution to the diff problem was to put in an F diff live axle and use the GT4 centre, to make it possible to use a full GT4 drivetrain. Alternatively, put a 4AGZE into the AE95.
Ian.
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Wed, 16 November 2005 23:38
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yea i have both 
u will have to do some major mods to get the thing to fit into a ae82, the transfercase sits under the gear shifter...
so if the gt4 is similar (east west) they would have a even bigger transfer case of somekind?
might as well rip everything from the ae82 or ae92 and go from there
oh yea, i think u looking for a tercel wich is north south 4wd with fwd mode, the ae85 is rwd
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Thu, 17 November 2005 13:50
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that the ae95 crossmember will bolt onto an ae92 with no mods
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Never checked that out, thanks, I'll keep note of that.
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So, really, it comes down to
1) does the gt4 hub bolt on
2) do the cv's have enough clearance
3) can a diffhangar be made easily enough
4) will the fuel tank be too small
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Few interesting facts;
The GZE box(AE92) and the GT4 (well at least the ST165 sitting in storage) are very similar in the way is looks, the way the mounts holes are and most of all, CV's.... I reakon the tranfer case will bolt up to the GZE box, though I've haven't actually got around to seeing 100% the differences and mods need to fit GZE mounts etc to the GT4 Box so they can be fitted to a rolla,or taking the tranfer case off the GT4 to see if it fits the GZE, but the AE92 GZE shafts slot straight into this box, that I can confirm, so at least you can keep the corolla front hubs etc... GT4 Rear end into the corolla is the only problem, since the celica seems to be wider (well The ST185 one i've got does) and the issue of fuel tank... the fuel tank, well sedan keeps coming to mind  . The possiblities for getting around the diff etc would be to build a rear end similar to the AE111 WRC corolla, or somehow mount a shortened GT4 rear end, again this I haven't had time to measure or think about it....but I also think if your going to do all this, why stop at a 3SGTE? how bout a V6 with some f/I! I know it most likely suck in the handling dept, but is would be great in the straight and pointy, along with a rumble that would have people thinking, WTF is in that!! 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Thu, 17 November 2005 14:02
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i saw an AE95 driving along today... not 100% certain but it looked like the diff centre was buncing over bumps also.. indicating it is live axle....
no pics yet tho..
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Location:
Ireland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Thu, 17 November 2005 15:41
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nice to see an AE95 3sgte post survive this long without a bump
The AE92 3sge/3sgte conversion has been done to death.
The front half of the project is quite feasible.
The ST185/205 use indpendant rear suspension dont they??
As has been pointed out, sorting the rear is the only question.
Be it swapping in ST185 rear struts with hubs and fabbing a diff carrier, or just changing hubs and fabbin a diff carrier.
Im sure theres an ST185 on its roof somewhere in a scrapyard.
The dif carrying section could be cut out and mounted easily on an AE shell.
Id be of the mind to slot the drives into the hubs and the diff (fit the diff with carrier section bolted on) raise it to the body (centred in some way?), tack a few welds, and set the car on the ground. If the camber in the rear is way out or the wheelbase is too wide, either have the diff higher up or shorten the outer drives/custom make?
Alternatively, widen the front track. If rear camber is out, could make camber top adjusters for the rear?? I doubt the camber in the rear would become positive, if it did, the diff carrier could be mounted lower.
I hope people can picture what Im saying.
Just throwing ideas out there to play with.
[Updated on: Thu, 17 November 2005 15:44]
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Thu, 17 November 2005 15:58
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yar, it's a good idea for a track car, but getting it engineered would be a total pain in the arse over here...
you have more lax/nice modding laws over there?
i still think starting with a factory 4WD version is the easiest way to make a 4WD
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Location:
Ireland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Thu, 17 November 2005 16:05
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deffo!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Thu, 17 November 2005 20:46
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i have a high octane dvd which has a 4wd twin engined ae82 seca, so 1 4agte in the front driving front wheels and 1 4agte in the back driving the rear wheels... i'll have to rip the vid its quite awesome
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Fri, 18 November 2005 10:56
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Please do!
Anyhow, I wandered around a wreckers at lunch time again, and it seems the celica's main differences lie in the distance that seperates the wishbones, and the length of the wishbones. There's no way to shorten the distance between and there's no way to lengthen the corolla wishbones.
Essentially it looks like this :
*note* that's a VERY rough sketch just to show what I mean. Its angles are probably wrong, and I forget what the chassis did differently on the gt4.
I think it's still do-able but the front wishbone could be a pain. You have the option of angling it forwards some 5ish degrees, which will undoubtedly make wheel aligning interesting, or finding an already factory bent wishbone from another car that's magically the same length, or modding the chassis.
I'm not a fan of modding the chassis.
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Location:
Ireland
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Fri, 18 November 2005 11:48
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the difference is because on the celica the wheels push, so if the arms were closer, they would have a tendency to turn the wheels inwards.. they do this anyway on acceleration, but with the corolla width it would be dangerous
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Location:
Ireland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Fri, 18 November 2005 15:55
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rosejoint the suspension?
Poly bushes?
surely to god this cant hold us all back
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Fri, 18 November 2005 19:57
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rose joints would help, but by halving the distance you are doubling the forces....
meh, transplant whole rear end and shorten
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Sat, 19 November 2005 23:25
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buy a factory 4wd one!!! much easier...
surely one of those ae92 awd sedans would cost about half of bugger all in japan given their age. so drive one away here for what 5k
hell if you go and twist the arm of your local importer get him to find and youd probaly drive it away from 6.5k and not have to worry about any of the hassles.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Sun, 20 November 2005 12:40
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yup, they have virtually no value here at all.. especially once they are out of rego...
cost of importing and compliance is abotu all it will be
truckload cheaper than a backyard bodgy job
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Sun, 20 November 2005 13:01
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Do me a favour and see if you can find out how the ass end is done. If it's live axle, I'm not interested.
If it's IRS, it should all bolt on - I'd happily consider buying the needed parts from japan if you wouldnt mind being the middleman
A whole car however would be out of the question - unless it was REALLY cheap and even then the running gear would be converted to mine and the body scrapped.
There'd simply be no point complying it here. It'd cost like 10K to do. You'd have to be a retard to pay that for a corolla when a proper celica gt4 is about that price.
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Location:
Ireland
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
October 2005
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: So I got to thinking... 4wd ae82/92
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Sun, 20 November 2005 22:10
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youd probaly have a 1988 model ae95 sedan for drive aweay for what 6k ? less if you did it all yourself.
stop bothering about the conversion and chase an import. it will be buckets eaiser and cheaper.
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