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Pugs
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July 2004
AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 18 November 2005 11:28 Go to next message
Hi Guys,

I'm currently undertaking the following conversion and was wondering what things I should look out for to avoid time delays and just general advice.

How here has done one and was it worth while?

What were your dyno and drag times etc?

Thanks for any feedback!

Cheers
Daniel
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shinybluesteel
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 18 November 2005 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i highly doubt you would be able to tell the difference really.

just throw some cams in your smallport, turbo it or get a RWD car.
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jasonp1977
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 18 November 2005 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if there's nothing wrong with your 16V, the 20V wont make much difference at all. You will notice it is smoother in the top end, and if you get a later AE101 20V (series 2) you will get the nicer C56 5-speed.

The only time I'd recommend doing a 20V swap to an SX is if the old motor is broken, and you're not able to find a replacement 16V under $500. In that case you can go buy a $1200-1400 20V cut and drop that lot in as a cheap replacement. Remember that all silvertop cuts are at least 10 years old

You'll probably dyno from the high 60's to high 70's depending on the dyno and if your wiring is done properly or not. On the 1/4 you may run anywhere from a 15.5-16.5. The 20V's best friend is weight reduction if you want it to go quicker.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 November 2005 22:59]

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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Sun, 20 November 2005 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well my 16v gearbox shat it self on Monday night and I found a silvertop half cut complete for $1100.00 that has done 74,000 kms.

Surely a motor that has quad throttle bodies, 4 more valves and is about 175,000 kms younger will be much quicker that a tired 16v?

The 20v has more potential right?

I pulled a 15.12 out of my sr20de pulsar Ti sedan with only breathing mods and a chip, so I'm sure the seca with less weight and more kws standard with be close if not better right?

[Updated on: Thu, 01 December 2005 09:15]

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jasonp1977
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Sun, 20 November 2005 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
...try it. The motor will feel nice, it just wont be that quick... 20V's are not meant to be a drag motor, they're only any good over 5000rpm.

Make sure you change the timing belt and waterpump before you install the new motor, I've seen 6 different AE101 20V swaps have the waterpump fail within 6 months of the swap and it's much easier to change with the motor out of the car. The camira 1.6L gates timing belt is a perfect fit for the AE101 20V.

I've done a couple of AE101 20V swaps to SX's now, and an AE111 20V to an AE94, they were all fairly dissapointing performance wise considering the cost of the swap.

Dyno graphs from when we had a bunch of different AE9x corolla's with different motors in them on the dyno are here: http://www.twincam.org/forums/index.php?showtopic= 10946

I can't find the link to when we had almost all those cars out to the drags at willowbank, but the AE9x 20V's couldn't better a high 15 on the night, the AE82 20V's run a bit quicker due to their lower weight. The 102kw ATW AE92 GZE sedan from that thread did a pretty easy 15.1 with a ton of wheelspin, really needs a LSD to get the power down Razz
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Mon, 21 November 2005 08:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fair enough.

The GZE Conversion would have cost me between $5500 to $7000 and this is only going to cost me around $3000 to $3500 and at the end of the day, I need a reliable, fuel efficient car, as I travel at least 55 km's per day and Can't afford a high petrol bill.

What mod's can I do to the 20v to achieve high 14's?

Do they respond as well to cams, aftermarket ecu and tuning like the 16v does?

Kilowatts don't mean a great deal to me traffic light drag wins, street cred and a decent 1/4 mile time do.

I've done about 50 passes at AIR, so hopefully that will help me lower the ET.

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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Mon, 21 November 2005 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
you want 14's you should have whacked in a GZE cheap mods would have got it in the high 14's alot cheaper. I reckon it will cost you maybe 4times as much as it would have cost to upgrade a GZE to get 14's than it will for your 20v.

But yeah cams, aftermarket ecu might get you there but will cost in excess of $1000 possibly $2000 depending on which ECU you buy who tunes it and where you get your cams from.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Tue, 22 November 2005 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
As I said in my previous post, the 4AGZE conversion would have cost twice the amount as the 20v one will and I won't have the engineering issues I would with a 4AGZE.

Love NA Motors and want to make this one fly, so any other suggestions would be great.

I think high 14's are achievable with the right set up and driver without spending $1000's.

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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Tue, 22 November 2005 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well please if you crack the 14's with some cheap mods let me know. I own a 4age 20v in an AE92 and would love to know how to get it cracking into the 14's without having to rip out half the interior my spare tyre and stereo etc. Without using NOS as well. If it costs under $1000 i will gladly pay the money if you can produce the results.

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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Tue, 22 November 2005 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Did you do the conversion yourself?

What mods have you done with what results?

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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Tue, 22 November 2005 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nope didn't do the conversion myself i watched and helped with the moving of my engine out the 4afe and then the moving of the 4age 20v in. Only took a weekend to have one engine out and the other in I then had to send the car to a performance place to have the ecu wired up and then the car was ready to go. I then had to source a SX dash to get the 8200rpm cutoff which was restricting my cutoff to 7500 with CSI dash you should have no problems as you already have the sx dash.

Did not do many mods just a basic cold air intake with K&N filter and used my old 2inch exhaust which was on the car from before. Had the car dynoed at 69kws at the wheels.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Do you have extractors on the 20v?

How many km's has your 20v done?
on the dyno I use, I got 101.5 hp or 75.68 kmws atw for my 100kw.

The mods I had on the 100kw were extractors, hi flow cat, 2" exhuast and a k n panel filter.

They have finally got the car running today, so I will hopefully have it back tomorrow with a dyno result in hand.
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 01:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sadly to say i think you may be looking at a lower dyno reading or similar for the 20v unless this dyno is out and gives extra kilowatts.

All 20vs i believe come from the factory with extractors and yes i do have them the factory ones. When i bought the cut it had 58000kms on the dash and so far have done about 60000kms approximately. During this time have gone through 2 gear boxes on to my third now. Had to have the big end bearings replaced as they were on the way out in the bottom end luckily no damage to the crank. Blew a clutch and at one stage nearly dripped the car dry of oil as the 20vs chew lots of oil. Now use a heavier weight oil seems to help.
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Picture of my old clutch this is shocking stuff. Beware.

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clutchgon el1dd.jpg

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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yov've sure had a lot of problems with your motor, especially with it only having done 60,000 kms.

Hopefully I won't have too many problems with mine. I've got a new heavy duty clutch in my car already, so hopefully that won't be a problem. How old was your clutch?

Have you ran it down the strip yet?
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 07:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Okay well like i said 58000kms was on the engine when i bought it apparently. Now there would be 118000kms on it if 58000 was not fake.

nope no strip runs probably wont unless i mod the car.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What sort of car is it in?

Is your's fwd ot rwd?
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 24 November 2005 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FWD AE92 CSI rolla.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Have you got the lsd box?

Does your's redline at 8200 rpm?

As far as I know, my motor came with a standard manifold and not extractors, so I don't believe they all have factory extractors.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Have you got the lsd box?

Does your's redline at 8200 rpm?

As far as I know, my motor came with a standard manifold and not extractors, so I don't believe they all have factory extractors.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Have you got the lsd box?

Does your's redline at 8200 rpm?

As far as I know, my motor came with a standard manifold and not extractors, so I don't believe they all have factory extractors.
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 01:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yes mine redlines at 8200rpms use to only rev to 7200rpms when i had no SX dash. Installed dash and connected wire to speed sensor output which was the purple and white wire and was all good.

You sure you got a 20v motor because i'm quite sure they all come with factory extractors unless yours were taken away.

is this what your engine looks like check link
http://img306.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ae10120vo riginal15tc.jpg
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mine looks exactly like that.


I've just been on Twincam.org and found a lot of standard 20 valve's are getting low 15's and around 100-120 hp atws?
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 02:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The extractors would sit just under that guard inbetween the radiator and the engine. They should be 4 into 2 into 1 if you have them i'm curious to know what you have instead.

Low 15's well i find that hard to believe must be heavily modded 20vs or gtec readings which are not accurate.

[Updated on: Fri, 25 November 2005 02:07]

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trevtrev
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 05:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Power figures:
http://www.twincam.org/forums/index.php?s=1ea11dda ba46ce6a90a68dad0144379a&showtopic=10946

Drag times:
I can't find the link but Twincam had a 20V Vs GZE day earlier this year. most of them got 15.x

Trev
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Fri, 25 November 2005 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well it's all done now, thank god!!!

I ended up getting 110.9 Hp atws or 82.69 kws atw, which isn't bad really. It was on the same dyno the 100 kw 4age got 101.5 Hp atws or 75 odd kws atws.

Will take it down the strip soon and let you know how I go.

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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Sun, 27 November 2005 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It did have standard extractors on it and they are 4 into 2 into 1.

What speed do you guys get up to in 1st and 2nd Gears? Please be honest?
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Sun, 27 November 2005 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ist gear about 50-60 can't really remember right now and don;t want to take my car for a drive at the moment. But 2nd i can get 100-110 around there, that is pushing it to 8200rpm limit.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Mon, 28 November 2005 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I get around 55-60 in 1st and then about 95-100 in 2nd, without hitting the rev limiter, but it sure gets there quickly!!

I'm going to take it down the strip on 17th December stock to see what it does.
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Tue, 29 November 2005 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Did a check tonight 1st gear 60kms, 2nd gear 100, not enough road for 3rd gear so not sure about that one yet.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Wed, 30 November 2005 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sounds pretty similar to mine.

When are you going to take your's down the strip?
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corolla madness
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 01 December 2005 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not yet but will let you know if i do. I don't really see the point as i'll probably just get a 16 or something.
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Pugs
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Re: AE93 SX Seca Conversion From 4AGE 100KW To 20 Valve Silver Top Thu, 01 December 2005 09:19 Go to previous message
You never know, you might surprise yourself.

Dyno figures don't mean that much, it more comes down to the driver and set up of the car.
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