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Registered:
June 2004
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AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 05:39
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Ok, so I know this horse has been beaten to death, but I am seriously going to try and get it done.
I have access to a ‘84 AE86 manual R&P steering. The front end of this car is totally complete, to include the struts and rotors. I also have found a '80 Cressida as well, fully complete front end.
The engine is being swaped to a 18rgeu with a a 18rc sump. crossmember is going to stay stock 18R.
What parts do I need to get off this car/cars to make the rack and pinion work in my ra23? I know the rack and the lower part of the steering column, but what about the knuckles and the tie rod ends?
I am trying to make this swap as painless as possible. I am considering getting the whole front end off them both and using the parts as I need them. But I would really like to avoid getting the whole thing if I can. i might seriously be using the AE86 breaks and struts, for the breaking upgrade
I know the advantages of having the rack are outstanding, but is the work that it is going to take really worth it? How long will my car be out of use? Other than welding in the rack mounting brackets, what other fabbing/custom parts will I need to make this work well?
Any help from anyone is greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Ryan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 06:46
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I get the impression you have no idea how big a job this will actually be. Try digging up the old thread on the topic, it covered the ins and outs quite well - and there's a LOT to consider. For example, have you calculated how much bump steer you'll have with an AE86 rack? Do you even know what this is or why it's bad?
Good luck keeping the RA23 crossmember too. What are you planning to attach the rack to?
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 11:05
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I did this once. A AE71 rack in a KE55. Bump steer was a BIG problem. I sorted it out, but not before cutting, welding, and making things on the lathe. I used half the AE71 steering colum as well. Universal joint bind up was another issue.
To get bump steer sorted, as a rough general guide, have the steering arms and lower control arms about the same length, and parallel. That should be a good start anyway.
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 17:20
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Thanks for the help so far. i really apreciate it.
I know what bump steer is, just dont know how to corect it when I get it. Any other thoughts there?
The R corssmember shouldnt be any worse to do than the TA, or so I assume. both will require welding on a bracket of some kind.
Please, anyone else have any thoughts?
Ryan
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 21:30
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I know what bump steer is, just dont know how to corect it when I get it. Any other thoughts there?
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You change bumpsteer by moving the tie rod ends in relation to the control arm pivot points.
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The R corssmember shouldnt be any worse to do than the TA, or so I assume. both will require welding on a bracket of some kind.
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No, you cant do it with the RA23 xmember because its set too far forward.
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 22:34
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Too far forward, that can be fixed by using the mounting plate like you did, ocrrect? I realize that i am not a knowledgable person when it comes to suspensions, so please feel free to mention anything of relavance.
Ryan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Mon, 28 November 2005 22:49
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Have you actually had a look under your car yet??
With the RA23 crossmember, the sump sits exactly where the steering rack needs to be. No amount of fancy bracketry is going to save you there.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 00:43
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You would need for starters a TA23 crossmember and a find a front sump for the 18R.
If you look at the crossmember photo above you will see the TA23 crossmember. if you mirror the crosmember only you will see how far away the rack sits to anything than can be welded to.
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 01:27
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i can always cut the sump, or fab one up if need be. i am much more ready to do that then cut on my crossmember.
i am prepared to do whatever i need to do to get it to work.
Ryan
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 05:06
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if you are prepared to cut up a sump, then why dont you simply find a front sump, bolt it to the bottom of the 18rgeu, then fit the TA23 crossmember in there, that way you would have the engine still in the car with the correct crossmember and no modifications to the sump.
Note i haven't done this as I can't find a front sump 18r (i have the crossmember though ready to go) so i don't know if this is a simple bolt it all together proposition, if it is though that would then just leave you to follow the path of M.W.P (I need to speak to you about your conversion to by the way) with the adapted ta23 Xmember R&P route, or TurboRA28's Ke70 Xmember with integrated R&P (which negates the need for a TA23 XMember).
So the key is that damned front sump 18r.
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 06:28
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Exactly, thats the problem, I dont have access to a front sump 18r! Its really easier to cut mine and fab up everything than it is to keep looking for a front sump. Not to mention that I dont have access to a ta23 x-member either.
I know I am being stubborn, but I figure if I can make it work with what I have and modify it, then that makes it just that much more a thing that I can and should do.
I know I am frustrating people with this, but I really want to make this work however I can. Please, don’t bash me, help me, even if it is stupid and illogical.
Keep the thoughts coming
Ryan
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 07:26
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people100 once said something about corona's with 18r's in them that were front sumps....but i haven't gone to a wrecker yet to confirm.
otherwise i am in the same boat as you then rcodea so if you do work out a solution... 
i was always curious about securing the rack to the chassis rather than the crossmember but still didn't know if the sump would hit or not for the forward facing 18r crossmember.
remember i have zero knowledge in this field at the moment as i have not started research on it though
I also heard once of the rack being mounted in the forward position but this was on a front wheen drive car
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 08:14
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yes an Rt104 corona does run a front mount sump on the 18rc
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 11:29
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Modifying the sump is making a lot of work for yourself, and you'll substantially lower the volume of the sump - which is the exact opposite of what you want to do.
Take the time to find the right bits and you won't have to cut-and-shut anything.
If you're going to be stubborn about doing it "your way", why even bother asking for advice?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 13:32
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| ra_28 wrote on Tue, 29 November 2005 18:44 |
yes an Rt104 corona does run a front mount sump on the 18rc
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is there a reason why this model ran a front sump design?
is it because of R&P steering?
Is this model easily found at the wreckers or one of those rare white elephant ms65 type of cars?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Tue, 29 November 2005 22:23
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The RT104 corona's are not Mcfersion strut so the cross member is in a different spot thats about all. The Rt104 where made from 1974 till 1979 so there are plenty of them floating around in wreckers but if you get a sump make sure you get the oil pick up to match. No R&P steering these cars very old tech they run.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Wed, 30 November 2005 03:38
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I used a AE86/KE70 rack and xmember. Modified to fit into the RA28.
Complete KE70 steering column (ae86 wont come close to fitting).
Cant comment on your sump problems though.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Wed, 30 November 2005 17:30
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Yes I know that I am getting exactly what I asked for, advise.
I am more than grateful for the help too.
I have started looking for a TA23 crossmember and an 18R sump. I will be putting this R&P conversion untill i have both of those in hand, then go from there.
My only question though is the motor mounts on the TA23. If I am not mistaken, the motor mounts for the Ta are in a different place and are not compatible with the 18rgeu that I am using. Please clarify for me on that.
Thanks again
Ryan
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: AE86 rack and pinion in my ra23
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Thu, 01 December 2005 03:21
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That was the part i didn't know (wether the 18r would plonk straight down onto the crossmember mounts where a t series engine would normally go) personally i am less afraid to change the mounts than to modify sumps and R&P gear though.
Note the TA23 crossmember may not be as important as you could do what Joel did and grab the complete ke70/ae86 crossmember and R&P (Now i know the ke70 is reasonably plentiful at wreckers) thus only requiring the front sump search.
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