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Les
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May 2002
RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 03:59 Go to next message
"Let's tell all P - Platers they can't drive turbo and supercharged cars"

SO STUPID.. They were asking for it, such a stupid rule to try to enforce. Obviously not a lot of thought went into this at the RTA.

They should do something like ban drivers from cars capable of doing 0 - 100 km/h in less than 10 seconds

http://www.smh.com.au/news/news/attack-on-too-hot- to-handle-car-ban/2005/11/28/1133026396946.html

P platers do ask for it though. The number of times P plate drivers driving like deckheads .. fast car OR not.

Voice your opinions
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ke382TG
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 04:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think all P-Platers should be limited to driving Mighty Boys and Nikis or catching the bus.

/end of thread.
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h3ff44
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 04:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i agree how can they ban a car like the copen im mean come 43kw of raw power... god dont wana get a speeding ticket of 30kms an hour jeez... yet they allow you to drive an n/a m3... wtf?
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fuck yeah mighty boys are cool, when they are equipped with worked kei car turbo motors

Note the RTA has already allowed low boost and low power output cars back on to the p-plater friendly cars. These being charade turbo's and some low boost supercharged mercs.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 November 2005 04:10]

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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 04:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
h3ff44 wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 15:08

i agree how can they ban a car like the copen im mean come 43kw of raw power... god dont wana get a speeding ticket of 30kms an hour jeez... yet they allow you to drive an n/a m3... wtf?

you can't drive an M3 hipo NA sixes are also out this includes things like 350z's etc.

Other bad thing was when looking at some mercs because it was too hard to determine the difference between the Kompressor models and otherwise intially it was just a blanket ban on all say C-series mercs. I think they have now rectified this issue.
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EvilJack
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 04:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
meh they can do what they like im not a P plater Evil or Very Mad
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bloody_huge23
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 05:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
im a p plate driver and i think this rule is ok in most aspects even though i would love to drive a turbo 4AGE. but most p plater dickheads will just takes their dads/ mums cars out and rap them around a pole no matter of what rules.
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Les
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 05:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EvilJack wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 15:29

meh they can do what they like im not a P plater Evil or Very Mad


u are a road user aren't you ? so it does affect you !
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 05:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I'm a p-plater and it doesn't affect me muhuhhahahahaha now to buy that hi-po six.
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rthy
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wtf is a jabber? a punch line?
Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
what about turbo diesel Surprised Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rthy wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 17:05

what about turbo diesel Surprised Evil or Very Mad Rolling Eyes


they are not banned Wink walks off to import BMW's New 3.0L inline six twin turbo diesel wih 210kw and 500+NM of torque fuck yeah.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 November 2005 06:15]

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h3ff44
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
turbo diesel = torque monsters not power houses
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havabeer
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the wierd part is us P-plater's can still jump in and drive a (i think not part of list) evo 4 and 6 and a nice and powerful mazda RX8 (due to the fact its rotary)

i can see where car manufacturers are coming from, loosing some business because of this, but if they have a low boost car but have all the brand new safety requirements.

they really should ban all the turbo cars all the kids want ie skylines- *shudder* supra's most beefy holdens & fords.

they really should have had a look at what there banning and what there limiting us to. what happens when we get off our P plates and go out and buy an 500 RWHP subaru and wrap it around a tree because we dont have the expirence with that sorta car.

granted there are pro's and cons of this ban (witch i dont fall under) but if the car manufacture's arent making as much money due to lack of sales....thats only going to lead to lack of money going into safety reasearch.
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 21:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
havabeer wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 22:11



they really should have had a look at what there banning and what there limiting us to. what happens when we get off our P plates and go out and buy an 500 RWHP subaru and wrap it around a tree because we dont have the expirence with that sorta car.

granted there are pro's and cons of this ban (witch i dont fall under) but if the car manufacture's arent making as much money due to lack of sales....thats only going to lead to lack of money going into safety reasearch.

Mmmmm sunaru with 500rwhp fuck yeah Shocked .

Anyways the whole plan is they hope that by the time we get off our p's we'll be more mature and either not want or drive said cars more responsibly.

Any who this argument has been done way too many times now the media have stopped publisicing it so meh its all good. Those that have to abide by the new rules so be it, they'll save plenty of money in the mean time.
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hokey
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
h3ff44 wrote on Wed, 30 November 2005 17:15

turbo diesel = torque monsters not power houses

I beg to differ. From standard Patrol diesels they are getting around the 180rwkw mark. these are running 14's so they are very torquey and also very quick Evil or Very Mad
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coFF33
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
All P-Platers should not be allowed to drive a V8 or anything Turbocharged or Supercharged- i Agree with this rule and im sure there will be less deaths because of this.

The factor that there are Turbo Charged Volvos and SAAB's and people will not be able to drive them is a fucking stupid arguement because how many 17-21 year olds (i fall in this range) want a VOLVO or SAAB .. YEEE HAAAA! (note sarcasim)

The fact that you still can get 100ish RWKW out of a 4AGE sprinter/celica is not the point either , the fact that there is no TURBO means there is LESS chance of losing control at VERY highspeeds.

Thats not to say it would be good having pplaters driving stock KE70/KE55's with NO power at all and causing crashes from not making it across intersections in time ...

BUT


IMO , P-PLATERS are going to benifit from this rule

[Updated on: Wed, 30 November 2005 22:35]

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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
THEY'RE IS NO PERFORMANCE MODIFICATIONS ALLOWED EITHER SO 100RWKW SPRINTAHS will not be allowed to be owned by p-platers either.

As for the saab argument I wanted an old 900 aero at one stage, they are fucking cheap as around 140kw and go pretty hard for an old car.

What do you class as very highspeeds though. I mean a new SV6 commodore isn't on the list and they can top 240kmph, fuck even a lancer will hit 180kmph pretty easily.

No matter what you do the cars are not the problem is the driver and their attitude. A dickhead in any car is still gonna be a menace on the road and a danger to his/hers own life.

Fact is you can not legislate against stupidity and thus the problem will never be solved.

[Updated on: Wed, 30 November 2005 22:53]

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Les
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a stupid driver in a fast accelerating, powerful car will be more likely to cause accidents that if that same person was driving a slower accelerating less powerful car ..

thats all

i reckon put p platers on these "slow cars" for 2 years ( i think 3 years is ridiculous) and after that let them do whatever ..
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Les wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 09:56

a stupid driver in a fast accelerating, powerful car will be more likely to cause accidents that if that same person was driving a slower accelerating less powerful car ..

thats all

i reckon put p platers on these "slow cars" for 2 years ( i think 3 years is ridiculous) and after that let them do whatever ..

yeah but the more powerful car will also have better suspension and brakes to handle said speeds. I'd much rather a dickhead with decent brakes and abs behind me, than an old clapper which solid front discs rear drums and no abs.

When i did an advanced driver training course in January no matter what (right on the limit of locking up) my car was probably the worst there in the dry bar maybe a couple of shit drivers in better cars.

In the wet however when it comes down to greater skill the ricer boys in their little AE92 sailed way long as did the middle age females and younger blokes in their VS commodores. In the dry when there is an audible lock up noise they are able to modulate the pedal but in the wet their skills were lacking enormously.

By the end of the day my wet braking distance was better than my initial dry distance and probably only 1-2m more than my good dry stops from 60kmph.

Then we come to Mr weekend warrior apprentice mechanic in an R32 GTR, comes in probably quicker than most pulls up same distance every time and neglible difference dry to wet. I know which one i'd rather have sitting behind me.
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Les
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Re: RTA too stoopid Wed, 30 November 2005 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Corona RT142 wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 10:11



Then we come to Mr weekend warrior apprentice mechanic in an R32 GTR, comes in probably quicker than most pulls up same distance every time and neglible difference dry to wet. I know which one i'd rather have sitting behind me.


he wasn't a p plater was he

look the 318 more likely pull up the same as the skyline from the same speed so i dont see your point ??
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
He was on his greens, there was a 318TI compact there too the guys driving it were tools and were braking before the marker pulled up well, GTR was marginally better though.

My point is this a dickhead in a skyline has good brakes so is less likely in 90% of cases to run up your arse vs a dickhead in an old clapper and shit brakes.
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Les
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
A Volvo (non turbo mind you) will always be better 'safer' than a Clio Sport V6 (which we dont get here but I will use as an example because that is a hot mutherfuckerof a car that is apparently very easy to lose control of when driven hard) that does not automatically mean that everyone has to drive the Volvo now does it ??

NOW if you can afford the Clio Sport V6, there is nothing stopping you.

BUT when a P Plater is invoived, surely you would not let him/her into the Clio V6 - that is a given. The V6 has bigger brakes I hear you say ? That is true. It also has race tuned suspension - true ! But it also has a shit load more power .. so the chance of something going wrong in the Clio V6 is much higher than in the Volvo.

you cant compare an old clapper with a skyline - that is not what we are comparing .. old clappers are going to be dangerous NO MATTER what because of the old technology .. my mates old corona .. death on wheels .. p plate OR not ! hahahah

this argument is not about what car you would rather have behind you - its about what car u think a p plater will actually be safe in
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havabeer
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dihatzu charades, suzuki mighty boy's and swifts for all.

do things like suspension modifications and things like that come under the new rules as performance mods??
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thu187
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
This topic has been brought up so many times.
General consensus of everyone on toymods: RTA is gay wif teh aids.

We all know that they shouldn't be banning cars simply on the basis that they are turbocharged or supercharged.
Cars that have low power turbochargers or superchargers can be very safe.

Yay! Topic over.

It's almost midday and I haven't slept yet =\
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The point is though a p-plater can be safe in any car it just comes down to education/skills and attitude. My car has pretty darn attrocious rear end grip in the wet and I drive to the conditions. I could easily slide it round everywhere in the wet but I don't because it can be unpredictable at times.

This is my point it doesn't matter what car you give that element to drive they are still gonna drive like tools. Fast car or not they are still gonna endanger there own and other ppls lives.

The bans are kinda moronic in many ways too as there is always cars that are just as fast not on the banned list. Original Integra type R, straightline speed is pretty damn quick and handling is impressive. they are in the same price range as skylines so we'll probably see more p-platers under the new rules driving them.

They are still just as dangerous in the wrong hands as is any car. The fact is even before the bans the statistics had greatly improved in terms of p-plater fatalities since the early to late 1990's the only difference being the media attention.

If you want a ban for it to be actually useful the VIC system of power to weight ratio is much better, you can't tell me a 253 V8 HQ Premier is gonna be faster than almost any current sports hatch.
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tom210
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
my parents hyundai santa fe will do 180kmh, they dont know and they dont need to either. but yeah 0-100 time is around the 10sec mark,
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Les
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
topic over for you because u put no thought into this ! Laughing
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
havabeer wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 11:47

dihatzu charades, suzuki mighty boy's and swifts for all.

do things like suspension modifications and things like that come under the new rules as performance mods??

nope its only mods to the engine. see here for more info

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/gettingalicenc e/car/p1p2_conditions.html?llid=4

also interesting that an l-plater can drive any car they want, sure they have a parent next to them but if these powerful cars are sooo dangerous why let them dive it, on a wet roundabout, a dodgy clutch release and bit too much acceleration and wow nelly they are gonna be sideways with no idea of how to correct it.
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havabeer
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Learners are still banned from V8's and above.
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

The prohibited vehicle condition does not apply to:

Existing provisional (P1 and P2) licence holders prior to 11 July 2005, unless they are disqualified for a serious driving offence committed on or after 11 July 2005.
Learner licence holders.

no they aren't they are exempt from the bans.
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rthy
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wtf is a jabber? a punch line?
Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
havabeer wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 12:43

Learners are still banned from V8's and above.

what? i saw a L plater in a v8 SS VX or VY the other day
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rthy wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 14:54

havabeer wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 12:43

Learners are still banned from V8's and above.

what? i saw a L plater in a v8 SS VX or VY the other day

hes talking about NSW for starters and he's wrong Razz

[Updated on: Thu, 01 December 2005 03:59]

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st184 sillycar
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 05:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It's all coming down from JERK politicians as a knee-JERK reaction to all the JERK old/conservative/clueless voters who think young people, and in particular "Hoons and Hooligans" are the root of all evil. I'm sure there's millions of people (who can lick my balls) who think young/modified car drivers spend all day trying to run over babies, and work out faster, more spectacular ways to crash through their livingroom/fragile hips, and generally destroy all that's good & decent.


It's an attitude thing on both sides of the fence ( Rolling Eyes ) that brings about BRILLIANT rules like this. Laughing Laughing




Long story short, get into politics and change it, or shut the hell up.
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alliance_22
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think it should be more fair, those that want to drive performance car should have to do some kind of advanced driving course, and must pass the test... so basically you can control your car. And make it expensive so that not just anyone can get it. If you get the licence, you can drive ie. non modified skyline GTS / Silvia SR20dets / GT4s and stock turbos and 4agzes. More tests for modified cars etc, and for non restricted you should need to do a first aid course and that... have a fire extingusher etc.

anyway just an idea. my 2cents
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-=DV=-
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Re: RTA too stoopid Thu, 01 December 2005 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
howbout just deciding what is a RESPONSIBLE power to weight ratio..and anything that comes in making more power than that...force people to actually hold a cams licence to be allowed to drive that car on the road...that way every1 wins...p platers can still drive theyre rediculously modified cars...and they will actually know how to drive them
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Gerald1
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 01:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doesn't victoria have a weight to power ratio, something like 125kw per tonne? why didn't NSW just follow that if they wanted to do something? and also wasn't there a little loophole in the whole banning of vehicles where if a family only had 1 car, and that car was on the list. you could go and pay $23 and any P-plater in the family could drive it? same with work, if you needed a highpowered ute for work, you could get your boss to sign something saying u need it?

sorry i might be completely off on all this...

alliance_22 wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 16:13

I think it should be more fair, those that want to drive performance car should have to do some kind of advanced driving course, and must pass the test...


I think you alliance is spot on with this. a blanket ban is stupid, just make sure the people who drive the cars are able to.
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alliance_22
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Its an idea from what i was saying before, If it was totally up to me, i'd do the following:

Must do advacned driving test 150$ not refundable, use own car, if you pass you get "Stage 1 advanced driver's licence.... " and you can drive up to 3 liter Turbo / supercharge completely non mechanical modified cars. You should aslo recieve a 10% discound for Isurance of any type. License is valid for 1 year only, and to renew, you must sit the test again ($150) and if you pass, you pay an extra $100 for another year. so the total is $250 a year to renew, it is dear, but will keep the younger more immature driver out of the turbo range.

To advance to stage 2 advanced driver's license, you must hold stage 1 advanced driver's license for a period of 3 years and where you cannot be at fault for any accident on or off road, and must not have any points taken off during the year. To do the test, you must do a 5 day course $600 with your own car, and if you pass the test, you must pay $200 for your Stage 2 license which is valid for 3 years. If you fail, then you have to do another 5 day course at $600. This license entitles you to have light to moderate modifications on the car, a further 20% off all insurance packages. To renew, you must not be at fault for any accident during the 3 year and you cannot have more than 3 points deducted from your license. you must sit the stage 2 test at the end of the third year, the test costs $150 not refundable and if you pass, you need to pay $100 for handling and renewal charges.

This is what i'd try to enforce, but like i said its an idea that i would like to hear from RTA. Some people can be young and still have a mature mind when it comes to driving a car of their dreams and they dont wanna wait till they are a grandpa before they can finally get thier hands on one cause of stupid laws that isnt fair.

on a side note, they should bann asian ladies from driving Mercs and BMWs Very Happy Razz they cause just as much hazards on the road by taking 50min to park on the side of the road. Razz If they wanna drive a merc or BMW, they must do a 30day course for advance parking with merc to get the Stage 1 Parking license Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dude what p-plater would ever be able to afford the level two test. Its impractical especially in bush areas where there is a lack of advanced driver training centres.

It ain't gonna work, its stupid, and would be nigh on impossible to enforce ie the police would have to pull ppl over randomly to check if they are able to drive their car.
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alliance_22
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 04:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Corona RT142 wrote on Fri, 02 December 2005 15:04

dude what p-plater would ever be able to afford the level two test. Its impractical especially in bush areas where there is a lack of advanced driver training centres.

It ain't gonna work, its stupid, and would be nigh on impossible to enforce ie the police would have to pull ppl over randomly to check if they are able to drive their car.


well who wants to enforce P platers to mod the crap out of their cars Razz? just enough for them to experience turbo is enough i think, remember P platters only have 2-3 years exp in driving, i know people who have over 20 years and some still struggle to control a modified turbo car. Its an idea as well, so dont have to take it really seriously Razz. But i hate to see P platters not be able to drive turbos, but being able to drive turbos but not being able to mod the car is something else.

and to get to stage 2 for example, you should be older and more mature enough to drive safely on the roads, i really think P platters should not be mechanically modding their cars, its unsafe for both them and other road users.

and the cost is something they can bump up or down to what they want, i just want someone to hear the concept Razz
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alliance_22
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 04:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If p platers wanted to mod their cars, no one can stop them. Like no one can stop people from stealing, even if the rules are set that if you steal, you will face court.

But imagine if they ever get pulled by the police, and if found that their car had mechanical modifications and they dont have the license to have those modifications, then they loose the license and also their car. Like they all say, Run the red, you run the risk.

and very true comment about those in bush areas!

Then again if this idea was so good i'd be working for RTA Evil or Very Mad Laughing

[Updated on: Fri, 02 December 2005 04:54]

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Corona RT142
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Your suggestion is great and in an ideal world they would be great, however we don't live in one and thus they'd never work. It'd be too hard to do. Think about how many p-platers they're is in NSw about 400,000, now how many advanced driver training courses are they'e, about 4 all running out of 2 main tracks being Eastern creek and Oran park.

Their is no way they could handle the amount of extra business. ATM in my area there is up to a 3 month wait just to book for your p's test and thats with how many RTA's around, as I said its a great idea as are many others in theory. But when you look at the practical side of applying them they just won't work.

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alliance_22
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Re: RTA too stoopid Fri, 02 December 2005 05:03 Go to previous message
Corona RT142 wrote on Fri, 02 December 2005 15:57

Your suggestion is great and in an ideal world they would be great, however we don't live in one and thus they'd never work. It'd be too hard to do. Think about how many p-platers they're is in NSw about 400,000, now how many advanced driver training courses are they'e, about 4 all running out of 2 main tracks being Eastern creek and Oran park.

Their is no way they could handle the amount of extra business. ATM in my area there is up to a 3 month wait just to book for your p's test and thats with how many RTA's around, as I said its a great idea as are many others in theory. But when you look at the practical side of applying them they just won't work.




Yups only problem being not practical, hence we got the overal P platers banned from turbo. It sucks, i mean if there is ony 1 year in red p before you get your full license, i think i can understand it, but 3 years total in red+green P, it kindda sucks.

And i never got the objective of green P, i still see a lot of dangerous green P drivers out there on the roads, lol they just did the green P to perhaps raise the number of bucks they can make in a year.
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