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nick.parker
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Perth
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January 2005
What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 05:36 Go to next message
Hi,

What is the spec of a group A 4AGE engine? Was there Group A 4AGE racing class in Australia? I have searched club4AG and ToyMods and MR2OC with no success! I am particularly interested in the head modifications and valve sizes as I may have the oportunity to buy a cylinder head to stick onto my 4AGZE, and imagine it will be a lot cheaper to buy than putting big valves in to bigport ZE head.

Regards, Nick.
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Corona RT142
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November 2003
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 05:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7286/specscopy0eo.jpg
the specs

http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/6461/sproontahcopy6dv.jpg the car.

Give you an idea of the outputs they were running back in the day. As for mods no idea, and most racing teams aren't too for going in their info. Unless someone purchased one of these engines and stripped it down to find out what it had short of finding someone that worked on the cars you'd have no idea what they ran.
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Hunty
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Adelaide
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July 2002
 
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Holy crap 150kw!!!

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mrshin
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Montrose, VIC
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've got a small book, basically a TRD catalogue, of stuff used in the AE92 group A cars. It's dated 5/1988, and gives some details on the engine.
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nick.parker
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wow,
I had no idea. That is really amazing. MrShin, could you let me know some of the cylinder head details?
Regards, Nick.

[Updated on: Fri, 09 December 2005 06:14]

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Stretch
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November 2004
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if you want to know anything else about this engine im sure john smith would know about em ey. i can ask him if you want as he is my boss at work. (toyota)
later.
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Corona RT142
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 06:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hunty wrote on Fri, 09 December 2005 17:10

Holy crap 150kw!!!



hehe i have seen a sprinter pull off 122rwkw or around 160-170flywheel kws
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exquisit
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May 2003
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
surprise surprise
the engine that coronart142 is talkin about is up for sale

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&g oto=814014&rid=2772&S=f083080cb5fa4e6c5a0e 27c35702ed17
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shinybluesteel
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June 2002
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrshin, you wouldnt be interested in scanning the book would you?

from what i have gatgered, those engines run 302 degree inlet cams and 288 degree exhaust, have a GIF of the profiles and timing somwhere
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mrshin
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Fri, 09 December 2005 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I don't have a scanner that's really worth a cracker. The cylinder head details are a bit ordinary - basically, it tells you where to clean up the head etc., and gives valve seat sizes, which seem to suggest 31.6 and 27.6mm , but I'm not sure if that's the size of the valve head... A few pages later, it suggests the valves are 30.65 and 25.65. I think...
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domasik
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November 2003
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sat, 10 December 2005 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrshin wrote on Fri, 09 December 2005 17:10

stuff used in the AE92 group A cars.


mrshin wrote on Fri, 09 December 2005 17:10

It's dated 5/1988,


:S must have been very early development AE92 stuff i presume?

i know the lezin gtz came out in 1988 but wat month?
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mrshin
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sat, 10 December 2005 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No GZE stuff in here, in the front page it says '...add extra capabilities to the high-potential Corolla 1600FX-GT (AE92) models'

Its got homolocation numbers for Toyota Corolla Levin (AE92), Toyota Sprinter Trueno (AE92), Toyota Corolla 3 door 1600 FX-GT and Toyota Corolla 3 Door SEDAN GT
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Jonny2TG
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sat, 10 December 2005 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I have a book
"TRD corolla levin sprinter trueno special edition Bible".
All parts listed are TRD, old school parts, and probably not avaliable. But its a good book anyway, and basicaly tells you how to build a Group A or N2 spec Corolla. AE86 - AE82/92, AE101/111. It shows dimentions how to build diff oil coolers, fuel tank, head porting etc. And lists all part numbers and prices. Half is in japanease.

Here is my take on it all...
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Jonny2TG
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Tasmania
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sat, 10 December 2005 23:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The TRD corolla bible has these main sections listed:
AE86 Group A (race or rally)
AE86 N2
AE92 Group A
and others...

also parts lists for AE101/111, TE27/37/55, 2T-G, 20 valve...
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Jonny2TG
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sun, 11 December 2005 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
From the book, AE86 group A race:(in Japan)

original bigport 4A-GE, stock intake manifold
170ps@7600rpm
16.9kg-m@6800rpm
1.1 mm head gasket
11.8 compression 33.0cc
mild porting deburing of the chamber (diagram shown)
exhaust ported to ~31mm diameter at the manifold
intake ported to ~30mm diameter oval at manifold
11mm valve guides
Valves, ~ IN 30mm, EX 24.7mm
3 angle valve seat grind
forged or cast pistons
balance con-rods, within 2 grams
balance crank and flywheel within 10g-cm

***CAM SPECS***
intake: 304 degrees duration, timed at 100 degrees
exhaust: 290 degrees duration, timed at 100 degrees
valve lift 7.5mm

valve springs, 20kg loaded (std 15.8kg)

engine oil cooler
improved radiator
fuel pump up to 250cc/min (std 182cc/min)
2 liter surge tank

It then lists strait cut gear ratios, 200mm clutch, diff ratios, LSD, diff oil cooler, suspension and some interia parts.

Generaly speaking I think group A cars maintained stock suspension mounting points and very little external modifications (no flares). Cars in this class currently in Japan has been called N1 now. It seams similar to our improved production class only tighter rules on engine (stock intake manifold and EFI).

[Updated on: Sun, 11 December 2005 00:44]

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Jonny2TG
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Tasmania
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sun, 11 December 2005 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The N2 AE86's were more serious. Slightly bigger and better everything. Twin Webber carbies. Dry sump.

215ps @9000rpm
18.6kg-m @7000rpm

***CAM SPECS***
IN 320 degrees duration, timed at 98 degrees
EX 308 degrees duration, timed at 102 degrees
valve list 10mm

other cams avaliable, 304, 300, 288, 272

No mufflers, sidepipe.

Carbies****
Dellorto DHLA48
jet sizes listed...

I have suspension and brake specs...
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Jonny2TG
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Tasmania
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sun, 11 December 2005 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AE92 Group A:

195ps@8800rpm
17.8kg-m@7600rpm

valve or seat size (not sure)
IN 31.6mm
EX 27.6mm

conrods balanced to 2g
other stuff balanced to 5g-cm

CAM SPECS
IN 312 degrees, 102 degrees
EX 304 degrees, 102 degrees

oil cooler, custom sump, better radiator, 295 or 370cc/min injectors, CDI ignition, quick rack 2.66 turns, 200mm clutch etc...
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Stretch
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Sydney,Hurstville
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November 2004
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sun, 11 December 2005 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jonny2TG wrote on Sun, 11 December 2005 10:33

I have a book
"TRD corolla levin sprinter trueno special edition Bible".
All parts listed are TRD, old school parts, and probably not avaliable. But its a good book anyway, and basicaly tells you how to build a Group A or N2 spec Corolla. AE86 - AE82/92, AE101/111. It shows dimentions how to build diff oil coolers, fuel tank, head porting etc. And lists all part numbers and prices. Half is in japanease.




i also have this book but just about all the parts are not available anymore. bummer
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Jonny2TG
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Tasmania
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Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Sun, 11 December 2005 01:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I think everything you need is avaliable, in one brand or another. Maybe you can't get the same Japanease man to port your head, but I'm sure a local could do a fairly good job. Let me know if you think there is a critical part no longer avaliable.
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nick.parker
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Location:
Perth
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January 2005
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Mon, 12 December 2005 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,

I had a look at this 'groupA' cylinder head (small port) today. Apart from lots of porting and polished combustion chambers, and machining so high lift cams lobes would clear the head. The valves as measured by my vernier calipers (at largest diameter) were
inlet approx 30.6mm, outlet approx 25.6mm. So it looks like this head has 1mm oversize inlet valves and stock exhaust valves.

The question is will this be of greater benefit to my AW11 than a bigport head or is a $300 20 valve head the ticket. I am forcing air in either head with an SC14 @ 18psi! See my website (in signature) for info / video.

Cheers, Nick

[Updated on: Mon, 12 December 2005 13:07]

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170bhp
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Registered:
January 2004
Re: What is a 'Group A' 4AGE ? Tue, 13 December 2005 00:23 Go to previous message
Many years ago I had a good chat to Bob Holden who raced a group A AE86, they were running 304deg cams with 10.5mm lift(shim under) I find this weird as group A rules stipulated duration was free but lift was to remain standard!, group A rules dictated standard intake manifold and standard exhaust manifold, he said that the restriction was the intake manifold, it limited BHP to about 170bhp, at the time they were revving to 8000rpm but the toyota preped car were revving much higher, when they rev theirs it would pop rods, they found out that Toyota were running Carillos....loop hole in homologation papers which allowed them to use atlantic parts, so they had some argo's made and then revved em higher, no problems. He also told me of a funny story he had when he went to Japan to pick up the parts from TRD for the AE86, they showed him their car, which he then told them was basically a sports sedan, they got shitty and told him to leave, they called a guy in UK who had done the original homologation papers for the ae86(this guy also happened to be a good mate of Bob's, he called Bob to give him the heads up!) the next day they called him back in and asked him what they needed to change. The last I saw Bob was at the 2000Lemans series in Adelaide where he raced a series 7 rx7 GTP car with us.
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