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ndgcpr
Forums Junkie


Location:
Pine Rivers QLD
Registered:
April 2005
Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 12:21 Go to next message
Howdy all

First a little bit about myself, i am a microelectronic engineer and have done a few motor swaps in my day, i would also like to work for toyota one day designing the computerized stuff for cars, if anyone can help Razz

Anyway i have been interested in cars for a while and even more interested in electric cars and the use of solar panels.

I am still to find how people manage to acquire large electric motors for cars and the specs of such motors (current draw ect).

Long story short, i want to have a play and see if i can't make such a car. The most powerful motors i can acquire are 240V ones and i was thinking that if i acquire a small light car (my GF drives a 1984 or so 5 speed manual, 3cyc charade that she wants to upgrade) rip out the seats and anything else to lighten the car, rip out the cylinders (as i would think oil flow will still be required) and replace the alternator with a belt driven electric motor (like those found in washing machines ect) and belt it up to the crank shaft. run a suitable inverter and pump 240V's into the motor.

I know the issues with inverters and motors and i am well aware that this thing will be completely gutless but i should get some movement in 1st right? esp if i rev it up and drop the clutch???

I would be interested to hear what people have to say about this, this is totally just to let me have a play and see what i can achieve. Eventually i would like to rebuild a really small car like a mini to get some decent speeds.

Thanks
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mrshin
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
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May 2002
 
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well, first of all I suggest you study (so-called) hybrid cars (prius etc.), as well as 'micro hybrid' cars, that essentially replace the alternator with a big electric motor. The ultimate problem is not the electric motors, but finding a way to get enough electricity to run them. The attractiveness of fossil fuel is the sheer energy density - even with the disgracefully shameful inefficiency with which our present systems convert it, nothing else even comes close to matching it for practical ability to fit a useful amount in a reasonable space.
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Big Rob
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Registered:
March 2005
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
why not remove all the wight of the motor, and room and put the motor straight onto the input shaft of the gearbox. A;so i would reccomend going for something like AC brushless mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Especially if you can find a speed controller that is capable of regen etc.

I think one of the reasons that most manufactures go for hub motors as other already commercially available motors dont have quite enoguh power for a car but 4/2 will. Also then you can ditch all the weight of the driveline. There is no need for a diff and since electric motors generally dont need gearboxs you wont need that either.

I think you will also have to look at how your going to charge all the batteries in this beast, it could take days....

A mate and i have plans for an electric powered lazy boy chair of some concoction. Plan keeps on changing, especially when the drive line is considered. I think the ieda at the moment was to use some Briggs and Stratton motors commonly found in some electric motor cycles and two speed controllers. At 48v and a large bank of batteries with large copper rods keeping the amps flowing. I tihnk this thing is planed to have like max 14kw or something haha, in a reclining chair.

Good luck
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ndgcpr
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Location:
Pine Rivers QLD
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April 2005
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
well i decided that keeping the block in will allow for really easy connection to the motor. as all i will need is a belt, also the charade is FWD so diffs and things won't be so bad.

I didn't know that people usually replace the alternator it just made sense to do it that way. Also i am a Microelectronic engineer, speed controllers are not a problem as i can build my own, yes even big mutha ones.

But like i said i want to have a play and if it works upgrade the motor or do it a different way.

What if i get a really light car (mini moke) and put 4 hub motors on? then i will have super 4WD no???

Anyway where do you acquire these hub motors.

And battery wise i was thinking in trying lithium, as i have worked a bit with them and i saw on beyond tomorrow that you buy a million AA size ones and wire them together.

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nick.parker
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2005
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,
You sound like a 'hands on' kinda guy who'd rather try something out than do some calculations to see if it would work.
Go to http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/motors.html
and buy a $36 300W, 24V DC motor, and a $24 350W speed controller and build an electric go-kart.

Hopefully this will spark your interest enough for you to get your calculator out to see how to improve performance, and what the problems are Confused

I am build an electric cart, but I have already done rough calculations to figure out what I need. Why not start your design off with a specification of what you want, and then find out what you can achieve within your means, and then re-evaluate your spec to accomodate Smile

Regards, Nick.

[Updated on: Mon, 12 December 2005 13:26]

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ndgcpr
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Location:
Pine Rivers QLD
Registered:
April 2005
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pffffttt calculators are boring.

I will do some proper stuff i guess i was just throwing ideas around, thanks for the link i totally forgot about oatlies. Although i haven't really checked farnel or anything either.

I am also just being a bum, i got numerous 240V motor just lying around and i thought a large inverter would be easier.

[Updated on: Mon, 12 December 2005 13:33]

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nick.parker
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2005
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hi,

That may be so but if used correctly they can sava-da-money and sava-da-time Laughing

F&P washing machine motors are one of the best choices (out of washing machine motors) for propulsion but at under 1kW they won't move your charade up any sort of incline, and forget any kind of acceleration, a 10kph headwind will stop you! Never mind the complex driver you'll need to control the motor (3phase brushless with 3 hall sensors for commutation).

Regards, Nick

[Updated on: Mon, 12 December 2005 13:37]

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oldcorollas
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
 
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i believe some of the drag electric cars (like the one in the 9's) use things like truck starter motors...

maybe use teh intahnet to search for something rather than asking toymod as your first port of call Razz

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Big Rob
Regular


Registered:
March 2005
Re: Electric cars.... Mon, 12 December 2005 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i gernerally thought trucks used air starter motors. The good thing about starters are they are powerful. The downside is they have a very low duty cycle. They are made to run at a few seconds not constantly for minutes on end. Thats why they are good for the drags, ony need 9s worth. Another idea is maybe talking to the guy who electrified the ariel atom?

Maybe have a look at the briggs and stratton Etek. I'm not sure how much power your going to need in a charade but these things are pretty cool. 8hp continious and 16hp max. So it may be possible if you fabricated one of these into each wheel.

http://www.gravitron.co.uk/html/laaa4002.html

Thats also another idea.

Good luck
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trevtrev
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
Re: Electric cars.... Tue, 13 December 2005 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/products.php?sec =3&id=6
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digitalpho3nix
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Location:
St James, Perth
Registered:
June 2004
Re: Electric cars.... Tue, 13 December 2005 03:50 Go to previous message
ndgcpr wrote on Mon, 12 December 2005 21:24


What if i get a really light car (mini moke) and put 4 hub motors on? then i will have super 4WD no???


Run a google search on Toyota's new prototype electric rally car. From memory, it has an electric motor at each wheel (4WD) and generates around 450NM of Torque right from idle. Shocked
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