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Location:
Sydney Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:01
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Hey whats the go with the 1 inch bigger rule and what r the ways around it??
The other night i came around a bend and there was 5 coppers standing on the road and 2 hwpatrol cars. I got a shock and backed off at which they all got excited over my blow off valve. Anyhow, he goes " your last name must be fangeo", i'm thinking not many people would know who that is , and then he goes "please prepare your car for a full inspection".. I'm like AHHH!H!! 
Anyways, 4 of the cops were nice but one was a bastard to me. He just gave me a warning for the Bov, and the airfilter but fined me $74 for the wheels being too big. When i complained he said "mate its the law, or else i would put 19's on the SS" HAHA. I laughed.
So whats the GOO?? i was pretty damn lucky to get off so light but i'm still pissed.. help?
Luke
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:22
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just another one of those bastard cops 
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:25
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that has to be the most fucked law i have heard of, why the hell couldnt you have big wheels ?....it is safer than stock ones if you use a lower profile tyre, there is not as much sidewall flex
for what its worth, a cop can fine you for anything he wants !!...but if he makes a stupid decision the only person who can turn it around is the magistrate when you dispute the fine in court, otherwise you will have to pay whatever he writes on the ticket
just say yes ossifer, yes ossifer, three bags full ossifer
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Location:
My Home Derrr... Noosa..Q...
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:26
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all ive heard with that law is that u can have 2 inches biger that ur stadard wheel size!!
to bad dude
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:31
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I thought 1" larger was legal, anything over that is not? I talked to engineer about it once and they said the reason they make it illegal is due to the extra strain the larger wheels put on steering components and so forth. Also less traction in the wet.
Bummer though! I've got done for my 15*7's on the Celica before. Just haven't felt like buying a new set of mags yet just because they are .5" too wide. But will get around to it sometime soon to get the RTA/Cops off my back.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:32
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Oh and also, the engineer I spoke to refused to engineer the car for large wheels.. But I have heard of some engineers who will do this???
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 06:36
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must depend on how much extra you pay !
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 07:45
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or if you give good head!!!! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 07:58
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WTF? i'd be going and speaking with your local either transport authority and finding out EXACTLY what the law is with respect that...and then contest it!
smells like BS to me...
*ooops sorry remember speed cameras save lives*
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 09:30
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You need to get hold of vehicle standards info sheet no 9 if you are in NSW. Someone has posted links for these in the past but I'm not sure of the details in your case. Under modified vehicle standards you can fit wheels and accessories incl engines that were fitted to the same model of vehicle, so hopefully someone has documentation of your car with larger wheels std. But even so I" I'd put money on being allowed (I think you can go 2" )
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 10:01
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Luke, speak with Rod 'cause I'm pretty sure he's got pretty good knowledge about the rules relating to wheel size.
Sounds like one of those cases where they couldn't just let you off scott free, so had to get you for *something*...
sam.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 11:24
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OK, a question about aftermarket air filters.
Some people say that fitting an aftermarket air filter (like K&N or Blitz pod filters) are illegal.
It this true in NSW or other states?
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 11:36
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RTA NSW guideline for aftermarket wheels:
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/v si09.pdf
Have a read and find out if you are legal. It depends on the weight of your vehicle.
As for the air filter question, I have come across conflicting information. I asked a policeman I know, and he said it *is* illegal to have a pod filter. However, the RTA NSW website makes no mention of this. The only relevant information I could find was to do with engine modifications, and that if you modify anything that will increase power (eg. Pod filter) you must be able to prove that it still passes emissions tests.
I got my car emissions tested when I put my pod on, and keep the print out in the glove box if they want to contest it. I just can't see how they can keep changing the rules on us and expecting that we know them all. Same goes for the BOV situation.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 11:37
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Luke the first question I would have asked is "whats the original wheel size" if he cant answer that then how can he tell you theyre oversized to start with!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 12:07
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i'm pretty certain you can go two inches bigger or smaller then the standard rim size the car came out with, if you had a car which came out with 15inch rims but had an optional extra of 17inch rims then in theory you should be able to go to 19inch rims as the car did come out with 17 inch rims at one stage,
but if you go bigger then 2 inch from stock then you need to get it engineered which is pretty easy to get done then if a cop says anything you just tell them to get stuffed and show your engineering certificate saying the rims are legal,
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Location:
QLD - Sunshine Coast
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 13:32
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wow i only thought wheel diameter was limited because of insurance purposes. that really sucks.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 15:18
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i got told by the local tyre and wheel place that it 2in bigger in diameter and width, but he also said it didn't really matter as long the overall diameter of the wheel and tyre together is not bigger by more than 15mm. But i'm still getting 17x7in and the factory wheel on my celica are 14x6in so i'm going 3in, i couldn't give a fuck. i think my pod filter wouldn't pass , it bloody loud, mainly coming up the hill on full throttle and the tacho showing 5k plus.  But its my understanding that NSW and VIC road worthy are much more stricter than QLD, i'm not sure, hopefully someone can clear this up...
Nezza 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 23:36
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I had a mate that the cops didnt like in the town that i use to live in. He got pulled over one night for an inspection again four cops and three hours later they defected his car on get this a cracked battery bracket not broken just cracked. It just goes to show you if they want to give you a fine they'll find something to fail.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Fri, 31 January 2003 23:59
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Shano2's post makes it fairly clear actually. And just in case you do come across a cop who likes to change the rules just a little to give you a fine (if they think you don't know any better then it's 74 easy dollars) it's always good to have a copy of the RTA info sheet in your glove box.
In my glove box I have a copy of three info sheets that relate to modifying cars, just for this purpose as well as a disposable camera.
I have actually subscribed to the ADRs through DoTaRs just so I can be right up on the rules, and indeed it is getteing harder to find someone who will engineer anything to far from the factory airbox on the induction side these days and ANY bov that vents to atmosphere is out pretty much, not for any emissions rules (it's just mildly compressed air) but simply for noise pollution issues.
Cheers.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sat, 01 February 2003 10:10
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well i as wondering if there is any links for QUEENSLAND orad rules on the modifercations side of stuff, i would love the links if any one as them...
Nezza
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 00:00
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luke spewing to hear it mate, what ya gunna do about it those rims look awesome on your car
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Location:
Sydney Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 02:08
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i'm gonna do nothing  . As the law states, i'm within the 250mm because of the low profile tires. If anything i'd like to march into the deewhy cop station and tell the hwpatrol dude that he was wrong after he continued to tell me to shut up cause i didn't know the rules.
Still pissed off that he said i lost traction and wouldn't hear otherwise. I wanted to stall it up and show him what losing traction sounds like!
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 02:35
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when a bunch of cops get together they all think theyre special.
I do however believe the rule is no bigger than 2 inches over standard rims
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 05:41
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just read that rta doc
you're in the clear luke. the rims can be as big in diameter as you like, as long as you stay within the 15mm of factory rim+wheel.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 06:50
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If you are legal, and you've been fined wrongly, go to the pig pen where the highway patrolling f@ckwit (whoops I meant c@cksucking f@ckwit) and ask to see the duty officer.
Show him the paperwork, and if it shows your legal he may fix it on the spot, no court required. If he doesn't tell him you would like to extend the time given to take court action to make some "submissions" (a legal letter to show your in the right) to the rta and infringement processing. This causes paperwork like you would not believe, about 6 months of crap back and forth. If it doesn't work on the duty officer, write a letter stating the same to infringement processing bureau/rta.
Chances are they'll just give you a section 10. (basically, it never happend, they're just not wrong and your not right, it just never happened)
I've got off two no seatbelt offences like this, and one was a double point long weekend one.
Nextime ask him if his black f@ck me boots he wears make him over 25mm taller, and if thats legal. If he lost some piggy fat doughnut eating weight if his spare tyre diametre would be smaller.
On a serious note, rims that are to big do cause premature wheel bearing failure and that ain't nice, so there is a reason for the law.
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Location:
MELBOURNE
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 09:52
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If a cop pulled me over and only gave me a $74 fine for my wheels, I would take it and run before he found anything else. How many of our cars are totally legal and road worthy?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 12:53
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hah, damo said it.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 13:47
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Jase I would like to know the nature of how you got out of those seat belt offences by the by.
I mean did you have modified seat-belts or harnesses? What was the deal?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 22:57
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The nature was, I wasn't wearing my seatbelt.
I told the officer I had it undone to untwist it.
I went to court, pleaded not guilty, said I was wearing it I was adjusting it. Police officer had in his records I had said that at the time of the offence.
They said its a technicality, I said I wanted time to make submissions. I was offered a section 10 if I pleaded guilty. So I did, and they gave me a section 10, which, put simply, is it never happened.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 02 February 2003 23:56
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what shano2 states above is a little misleading... this is refering to the OVERALL physical SIZE of the wheel/tyre installed, not the relative rim/tyre ratio's etc etc. much like overall track increase limits set etc.
NSW rules basically state you can legally only go 2 sizes up on the maximum standard fitment of RIM size. ie, if youve got 14's, you can ONLY go up to 16's before needing an engineers certificate.
once youve gone up rim size, youve then got to get your tyres fitted to keep the TOTAL height (as stated by shano2) under the "15mm bigger than stock" overall size.
if youve got 17's on a car that came out only with 14's, unless youve got an engineers cert, youre screwed.
the rta makes it a PITA to find all this info out (so much stuff missing form their online info etc) it doesnt help.
cheers
ed
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Location:
Southern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 00:36
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| Quote: |
if youve got 17's on a car that came out only with 14's, unless youve got an engineers cert, youre screwed.
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Hypothetically speaking... Say I was once running 17's on a car that came factory with 13's. I think they should have congratulated me on a 4inch increase. 
I was pulled over on several occasions and was never even questioned about the wheels. They were too busy writing out the speeding tickets most of the time.
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Location:
QLD - Sunshine Coast
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 00:59
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Ed,
Nothing personal but I disagree.
There are a lot more considerations than those that I mentioned (tyre width, rim width increase over std wheels, wheel track, offset etc) but in this particular case the complaint of the copper was the size of the rims. Nowhere in the RTA's regulations does it state the "plus two" rule. Nor is it written in the ADR's I have on CD.
Further more just to try and save further confusion I placed a phone call to the "Vehicle Regulation Unit" at the RTA that produce this document (listing in the link above) and all others relating to vehicle modification. The guy I spoke to was very helpful and more importantly very clear -
THERE IS NO PLUS TWO RULE!!!
He said that neither the RTA rules nor the ADR's specify a LIMIT to rim diameter as long as the OVERALL WHEEL AND TYRE DIAMETER remains with the 15mm limit mentioned above.
He also stated that the whole concept of the "plus two" idea is born out of a myth produced by a mob called the TYRERIM association (no I've never heard of them either) who produced a document called the "compatibility guide for wheel and tyre replacement" (I think I remembered this correctly - he also spoke very quickly ) which was distributed to wheel and tyre retailers and from there these retailers have got it into their heads that this is the law - IT IS NOT!!
So until someone comes up with some valid RTA documentation that says otherwise I'll stick by my original post and only add to it by repeating what I said above - that there are far more considerations to what's legal and what's not.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 01:00
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technically speaking a cop cant hand out defects.. is he an authorised rta inspector? nope.. but as it has been said before.. they can do what they want..
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 03:17
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| dylusion wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 12:00 |
technically speaking a cop cant hand out defects.. is he an authorised rta inspector? nope.. but as it has been said before.. they can do what they want..
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Yet another example of corruption and the abuse of power. 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 03:59
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interesting....interesting...
i have to say though, i do want to hear it with my own ears.
rta modification documentation is hopeless, and glaringly leaves out obvious points - such as power output increases requiring engineering. if you were to believe what the available documentation alone states about engine swaps, as long as capacity is with a 15% increase, power doesnt come in to it: which we all know is a bunch of bollox. the 15% rule also applies to power output, but funnily enough its never mentioned anywhere :shakes:
so with that in mind, i dont find it suprising that any "+2 rule" isnt mentioned in the section on allowable tyre and wheel modifications.... all they talk about is track and height changes etc...
so, unless i rock up with 17's on my car, and the rta give me the nod -in person, and in writing- i'd be more than a little hesitant believing that NO RULE WHATSOEVER exists regarding rim size and tyre profile.
i did read the +2 rule somehwere official once (god knows where anymore) - and to err on the side of caution is my motto
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 04:48
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the +2 rule also sounds familiar to me... but I'm not sure if it was just talk between modders, or anything official.
I think I might post to the RTA technical guy.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 05:53
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G'day,
i have my wheels on my celica engineered, with the sizes of all wheels and tyres listed on the certificate.
By the way my rear wheels are 8 in wide.
I had everything listed on my certificate, including that my car is a 2 seater, because even without the rear seat in, you need the rear seat belts etc.
As to the airfilters etc. according to my engineer, any thing that affects the running of the motor that may have a bearing on emissions needs to be engineered. This included air filters, aftermarket exhausts or extractors, cams etc.
It is for this reason that aftermarket computers (except motec???? which can be locked and only the emissions people have the pin, not you) are illegal too. as you can change the emissions by tuning it.
Cheers
Stew
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 08:35
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Any engine mod can almost be called a breach of ADR 37. It's what every cop on the block is now using to defect "power" modifications.
A BOV, POD filter, larger intercooler, larger intercooler piping, larger exhaust can all be defected as they change the emissions away from what the car was originally released and tested with.
Especially aftemarket ECU's. Hide the thing and the cops won't know about that one.
I've been pulled over previously and got "7", yes thats correct seven defects from oil on the under carraige of the car to un-engineered turbo(it was the stock one!) and also a rip in the material cloth that happens on the ma61 bucket seats.
Did you get defected for your engine Luke or do you have an engineers certificate?
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Location:
Gippsland Victoria
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Mon, 03 February 2003 09:25
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Damn these laws, im glad im becomming an engineer 
with those seatbelt laws, ive replaced the rear seat with a set of pioneers, 4 in total, with the subwoofer behind it. does that mean that the car gets a defect for that? (hope they dont find the bend in the rear axle (damn curbs) ) i wonder if they can get you for having the wrong tread pattern on the tires 
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 01:27
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Also defect notice is only an indication that the copper "suspects" the car is unroadworthy or in breach of an ADR.
It is then up to the owner to prove it to an "expert" that the car is not illegal.
This is about the only case in our judicial system where you have to prove your innocence when accused by any old imbocile.
We can have our own back as the complaints system for the police service is much the same.
EVERY single official complaint, even made annonymously over the phone is investigated by a number of authorities and even if the accusation is proven incorrect the details are still recorded against the officers name.
REMEMBER - EVEN ANONYMOUS ACCUSATIONS ARE INVESTIGATED AND RECORDED !!
ALWAYS get the name of the cop hassling you !!
Matt
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Tue, 04 February 2003 01:42
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Interesting, so basically we could get 'pay back' for them being ar5eh0les... Im sure they wouldn't like the hassle of an investigation on them.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
January 2003
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 16 February 2003 10:54
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a guy i know got 17*7inch chromies with 40series tyres engineered on his seca sx...
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Location:
QLD - Sunshine Coast
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: i got FINED for my wheels! $$!
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Sun, 16 February 2003 21:41
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17*7's with the usual 205/40/17 tyres are only 3mm over the max diameter and ~12.5mm over max rim width for the AE92 so I can't imagine any REASONABLE engineer not passing them.
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