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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 09:05
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well my car aint even finished yet and im already getting "That" wiull be able to beat you "this" will be able to beat you, what is with people these days if ya car that is a little faster than stadard you are open to critism!!!
The XR6 turbo is the latest opposition, what do these cars put out standard? would a 1g beat it?
anyone drove one ?
if not im gunna make sure mine does to put all these none well wishers in there places
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 09:15
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I haven't been in a 1g powered anything but I have been in a retuned XR6 Turbo and that thing kicks arse! It will kick the pants off my standard 3S-GTE TA22 
I have also been told it kicks a worked SR20 powered 180sx 
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 10:46
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Yeah but does it lack power as it stops at 6,000rpm???
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 10:54
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What do you mean? Does it run out at 6000RPM?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:11
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if the redline that low then its gonna be a torque machine!
how much does it weigh?
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:12
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Yeah... I read that the limiter is 6,000rpm to meet ADR regulations...
My Corolla for instance gets most of it's power at the top scale of the rev range, is this the same with the XR6 Turbo??? Like does the turbo kick in at around 3,000rpm and then the motor limits at 6,000rpm and won't go past that??? If so, thats pretty poor... Cause the way I see it, the moment you give it a bootful, it will be on the rev limiter straight away...
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:16
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Hey Shane the XR6 Turbo won't get near your TA22 , I did a little tuning on mine yesterday and tried it on 12psi , and put out 170 RWKW which is about the same as the XR6 Turbo , And when it comes to power to weight the TA22 will just walk away from the XR6 and your motor will develop more power than mine at the same boost as the ST205 has higher lift cams than the ST165 , I normally don't run on 12 psi my every day setting is about 21 psi which is about 260 RWKW .
Trevor
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:27
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Ive heard that these puppies are running on only a small amount of boost. Otherwise, it would have had more power than the new XR8 when it hits the streets.
I believe the new XR6 is around the 1600kg mark and the new XR8 is gonna be around 1800!!!! Put 2 blokes in there and you have a 2 tonne car!!! FREAK!!
But those falcon engines are torque machines before they put the twin cam head on and the turbo.
I think they are finally doing something right. Appart from the porkiness of them, finally the aussie roads get some turbo six tearing up the roads.
My 2 yens worth...
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:30
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sounds like you have been talking to some jelious people. Does it really matter what cars it will/wont beat? Just enjoy such a nice celica.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:37
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| TA22-3SGTE wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 21:16 |
Hey Shane the XR6 Turbo won't get near your TA22 , I did a little tuning on mine yesterday and tried it on 12psi , and put out 170 RWKW which is about the same as the XR6 Turbo , And when it comes to power to weight the TA22 will just walk away from the XR6 and your motor will develop more power than mine at the same boost as the ST205 has higher lift cams than the ST165 ,
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Well thats good to know.
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I normally don't run on 12 psi my every day setting is about 21 psi which is about 260 RWKW .
Trevor
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I love that 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 11:52
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to the fella with 260rwkw TA22, YOU ARE FREAKING CRAZY!!! that must be quite a handful.
also, the xr6 turbos weigh closer to 1750kg. Don't know about the xr8's. The boost comes on very early in the xr6's because of their large capacity obviously. I think they have 450nm of torque, with 400nm available from 1500 to4500rpm. something like that anyway. 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:06
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the new xr8 turbo runs 6psi... I have taken one of them things from out of the toll gates in my 1g ra28 and then mutiple 100k 3rd gear rollons.
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Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:36
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who cares, its a FORD. why be so worried about whats going to chop you, when you pay $15000 for a kitted out celica or $50000 on a xr6 turbo.
JUZZO
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:37
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hey there is no denying I'd love to get one for a company car.. would be THE perfect car for the family to get into...
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 12:58
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considering it beat the wrx or sti (for one of NRMA's categories), it must be up there with the opposition ! 
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Mon, 03 February 2003 23:49
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I'm not changing camps but imagine one of thoes turbo sixes in an old Cortina. Bugger the 289 conversion, that baby will just about drop in. I guess it only a matter of time until teh first one is written off.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 00:02
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well my thoughts are this:
-xr6 turbo, good in a straight line, useless around a corner.
-old school celica, looks waaay cooler
-xr6 turbo about 10 times the cost
i've also heard that its near impossible to up the boost on the xr6 turbo, since the computer just doesnt allow for it - and an aftermarket computer in this car just wont work, since the ford computers do everything from climate control, to fuel mapping, to central locking control to everything else!
Personally i would rather turbo a maxima! (for a family car)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 00:58
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Apparently the big Ford handles well, sure it weighs a heap, but it was supposed to do pretty well as what it does!
You'd probably be able to run a aftermarket computer piggybacked with the original ECU, thata the way a lot of installations are being done in magazines lately.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 01:16
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I rarely believe anything that I read about Fords and Holdens from the Australian press. They're full of propaganda.
For $50k, I'd take an S15 and dump $10k into the engine/suspension. Much better than paying $50k for a taxi cab.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 01:19
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The fact a full-bodied family car can run a nearly 14 flat quarter weighing that much has got to be a good thing.
Plus it is only just over 40k, its about the same price as a Subaru WRX.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 01:20
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I agree with Nark, They are always bragging about their 300kw's etc but apparently when they run on the dyno's, they lose heaps!!!
And when ever you see one one the road, its not as quick as they are made out to be.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 01:39
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Probably a bit off track, but I had the Cressida dynoed recently and got 127RWKW (obviously room for improvement! ). Then I was told that a Gen3 dynoed on that dyno, that day, ran 133RWKW...Not sure what to make of that... (Gen3 is 225FWKW stock? and 1UZ is 195FWKW. Mine is auto, not sure about Gen3)
Hmmm...could be a discrepancy between published and actual figures???
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 02:37
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ok just some figures i know
the Xr6's run about 6 pound of boost - so theres shitloads more they can get out - at 6 pounds its generating the 240 Kw - and 450 for torque
the testmules ran slightly higher boost at atound 8 psi =- and were running comfortably at 270 KW - on Stock internals - bar boostup
They were detuned cause the 6 will flog the crap out of the new boss V8's
The manuals had inital problems with being able to handle the extra power BUT the Autos ( as used in aston martins ) have no such issues ..
now - as for the cmputer issues - i can see possibilitys fior some mapping - but like anything modified for high boost - wait for an aftermarker ECU
Figures show that the old falcon will flog the fuck in standard form over most current v8 commo's and falcons - and will even give our treasured supras a good scare
yes its a family sedan , yes its aussie yes its bulky - but the supra aint that much of a lightweight either in the last shapes form -
In the hands of aftermarket tuners - with aftermarket ECu - intercooler and internal modifications - expect to see over 300 Kw with ease - proof of bootm end can be seen in the fullboost XE falcom - large turbo inline 6 - 320 KW ar the rears i think ! - thats insane in anyones books
Handling wise - it its very lovely to drive - and IMHO - for a family sedan - its gunna scare the pants out of a lot of WRX owners if they ever see it looming in the rear view mirrors ..
Give ford australia credit for actually having the balls to take on the japs at what they do best ! instead of thinking a big v8 can do it ( aka holden gts )
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 08:11
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The ecu in the new falcons can actually be fully tunned by anyone who has the software and knoweldge of how to do it! One of my customers(who deals with 2-way radios not cars) has programmed/tuned the ecu in his xr6 turbo with no trouble at all!
Anyone that says it cant be done is full of shit! Ring a few chip torque dealers i'm sure they can do it by now or will be able to put you onto someone who can!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 12:47
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the xr6 is a turbo 4 cyl. right? its not a 6 cyl ... or is it???
man im so confused... 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 12:52
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It is a turbo version of the twin-cam 24v inline six in the new BA Falcon...hence XR6
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Location:
Blacktown Bro
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 21:04
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xr6 turbos are mad!
just because its not a Toyota it gets bagged out.
At least Ford are doing something different and daring, like a turbo six, and do it properly, not like toyota and that um turbo corolla 
Some of you guys complain that toyota cars are boring...which they are at the moment.
Ford bring out a high performance sedan, and some of you guys complain that...its too heavy (supra) doesnt rev out enough (um its a big 6 with shitloads of tourque so it doesnt need to).
like gee man, half of you people will never buy a high performance NEW ford, and even if toyota brought out a NEW supra or some turboed celica how many of you would be able to actually afford it. why whinge about cars you can afford?
i like camrys & avalons...there comfy 
i hate corollas (cos i have one) 
wait for it....wait for it...here come the angry replies..... 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 21:55
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you seem to not like toyotas much? why are you here again
hence being a toyota affilated club
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Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 22:02
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| Oz_Craig wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 08:55 |
you seem to not like toyotas much? why are you here again
hence being a toyota affilated club
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chill oz craig.. chill
hes just pointing out that ford has made a good car but deep down he knows that the old school celicas have it over these new cars.
isn't that right !
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 23:04
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A DOHC car with a rev limiter at 6,000rpm is not a good car. Not matter what else goes into the equation.
Hell, the SOHC 21R-C revved higher than that!
Pathetic.
Ford may have done a good thing by bringing out a car with a DOHC (yes, they finally discovered DOHC) turbo six, but the low, low, low limiter shows that it just wasn't done properly.
And they still believe pushrod V8s are good performance engines...
As for Toyota, I think the entire passenger car range (with the exception of the V6 Camry) is VVTi now. I wonder how many decades it'll take before that happens at Ford and Holden.
Turbo Echo is about to be released and the 2ZZ-GE Corolla will be released soon.
If only they'd stick the 2ZZ-GE into the MR2 and brought the manual into Australia.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Tue, 04 February 2003 23:19
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Nark,
Why does everything have to be related to the rev-limiter? The Falcon redlines low because of its waaaaaay undersqquare bore/stroke ratio. It has no problems getting smoothly to its redline. Maybe you've forgotted quite how unhealthy the 21R-C sounds at those revs.
The Falcon already has something along the lines of Toyota's vvti (not to be confused with vvtLi) installed into both the new 6 and from memory its in the V8 too.
By the way, the new V8 isn't pushrod...its a 5.4l quad-cam...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:00
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Yes dude, it does. When you get the 1G-GTE in, you'll understand why. Getting smoothly to a 6,000rpm limiter (not redline) isn't much of an achievement for a DOHC engine....
It's supposed to be a sports car, not a tractor.
Wow, you mean they've actually discovered OHC V8s now?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:09
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Thats the thing, the new Falcon six is supposed to get to the rev-limiter fine, its just set low for the sake of piston velocity. Its not the same sort of engine as a 1GGTE though, it does make a heap of power, its just that it doesn't have to be worked hard to get it. Thats their market though...
The new V8 has an even crazier bore/stroke, so it'll be redlined at 5500rpm, but it'll breathe well, so it'll get there quick..
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:27
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 11:09 |
Its not the same sort of engine as a 1GGTE though, it does make a heap of power, its just that it doesn't have to be worked hard to get it. Thats their market though...
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Err... Worked hard? There's a reason why I'm always bouncing off the limiter. When you take your 1G to 7,200rpm you'll understand why. The 1G definately doesn't strain in any way to reach the PITA limiter. And this is an engine designed in the 80's.
Any modern DOHC engine should be the same. Hell, even the Camry's 1MZ-FE goes that high, and that engine is definately tuned for torque.
| rdraginrolla wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 08:04 |
Ford bring out a high performance sedan, and some of you guys complain that...its too heavy (supra) doesnt rev out enough (um its a big 6 with shitloads of tourque so it doesnt need to).
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The difference is that Toyota realised their mistake and went to extreme lengths (like hollow carpet fibres) to get the MkIV Supra lighter.
And if you say revs don't count then you obviously don't push your car hard enough.
Fuck the torque, that's what the turbo is for.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:32
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Ok, let me put it this way. When Toyota made the Camry engine, they made an entirely new engine. This is because Toyota have a LOT of money.
The fact that Ford Oz actually were able to make a DOHC 24v six is a feat in itself, but they were limited in the fact they had to use the same block they have always used. See where I'm going here? They did pretty well, because even the base model engine kicks the shit out of the old Falcon SOHC six.
And you miss what I mean by worked hard, I'm talking about being revved hard. Perhaps it would be better to compare the engine to something along the lines of a 7MGTE. The 1G has 6 tiny little cylinders with equal bore stroke, whereas both the 7M and Falcon 6 are both under-square, and even though capable of big power, don't like big revs...
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:49
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Capacity...
The XR6 turbo is a 4 litre, the 1G is a 2 litre... it doesn't need to rev nearly as hard to produce the same amount of power. Sorry Nark, but I just can't agree with your rev-limit argument. Big engines don't need revs like little ones. It's all about air/fuel flow... bigger engine will flow more than a smaller one at lower revs to produce comparable power.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:50
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You're just making excuses. Does it matter that it started out as a crap base? Where do you think the 18R-G started? What about the 4A-GE?
And why wouldn't you want to rev the engine hard?! As I said, it's a sports car not a tractor. It's meant to have its balls wringed.
Why do you think the 7M was replaced by the 1G/1JZ/2JZ engines which actually liked to rev?
Drive an MA70 and a JZA70 and come back and tell me which one you prefer. Yes, I know, bad example, but you know what I'm getting at.
At the end of the day the XR6 Turbo has a crap engine.
Of course, if I was given one, I wouldn't complain...
I'd sell it and buy an S15 instead.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:56
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Ummm, hell I'm not making excuses, I'd rather a 1JZ, I'm just explaining it like the way it is.
As for the 18R-G and 4A-GE, what relevance do they have? Sure, it would be better if the 4l Falcon six is a square engine, but how much would it cost to re-engineer something like that?
Its not a crap engine, its just different to what you like.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 00:58
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| Soarer wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 11:49 |
Capacity...
The XR6 turbo is a 4 litre, the 1G is a 2 litre... it doesn't need to rev nearly as hard to produce the same amount of power. Sorry Nark, but I just can't agree with your rev-limit argument. Big engines don't need revs like little ones. It's all about air/fuel flow... bigger engine will flow more than a smaller one at lower revs to produce comparable power.
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I'm not comparing a 1G to the XR6 turbo engine. You wouldn't want to stick either engine into the cars that the other is suitable for. I'm talking about engine characteristics.
Yes, capacity matters, but it doesn't affect how the engines rev. The fact that it doesn't NEED to rev doesn't mean that you don't WANT it to. Why don't we compare the Falcon engine to a 2JZ? Even with the difference in displacement, I know which one I'd pick.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:06
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 11:56 |
As for the 18R-G and 4A-GE, what relevance do they have?
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I was replying to this comment:
| Quote: |
The fact that Ford Oz actually were able to make a DOHC 24v six is a feat in itself, but they were limited in the fact they had to use the same block they have always used. See where I'm going here? They did pretty well, because even the base model engine kicks the shit out of the old Falcon SOHC six.
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The 18R-G and 4A-GE both started life from crappy engines. May not quite be the same block but they're exceptional engines from a family of crappy engines.
| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 11:56 |
Its not a crap engine, its just different to what you like.
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It's a crap engine. 
Man, I'm supposed to be doing work. You guys are distracting me!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:07
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Thats not a fair comparison, guarantee Toyota spent a SHITLOAD more designing the 2JZGTE. I'd be taking the 2JZ too!
Just give them some credit for making the Falcon six heaps better than it used to be...ya stingy bastard!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:09
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The thing is, the 18R and 4A started life as crappy engines with bore/stroke ratios that aren't so undersquare!!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
South of Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
South of Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:21
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http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_1613/article.html
a review site....bet u guys have a few problems with what they say on there.....
heres a few...
"And - to really stir a commotion - the 5-speed manual XR6 Turbo kicks off at only $43,965!" ONLY!
"The new turbo engine is fantastic; it offers good throttle response (at least as good as any other turbo car on the market) and it's supremely flexible at all revs. No need to row gears in the XR turbo because with a 450Nm torque plateau available between 2000 - 4500 rpm she'll pull away instantly."
"Unfortunately, the rest of the XR6T driveline feels like it's from a previous era of muscle cars...
The standard BTR T5 5-speed manual gearbox whines and growls while, out back, the diff clunks and snatches as you get on and off the power. With barely 4,000 kilometres on the clock of our test car we can't help wonder how tired it'll feel at, say, 40,000 kays."
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:27
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 12:07 |
Thats not a fair comparison, guarantee Toyota spent a SHITLOAD more designing the 2JZGTE. I'd be taking the 2JZ too!
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Yes, it's unfair, but it is a 3.0L vs a 4.0L....
| justcallmefrank wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 12:07 |
Just give them some credit for making the Falcon six heaps better than it used to be...ya stingy bastard!
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hahah Yes, it's SHITLOADS better than what it used to be.
Feeling better now?
Doesn't change the fact that it's a crap engine. It's just better than a crappier engine.... 
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Location:
Blacktown Bro
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:28
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Firstly in response to Oz-Craig, i didnt realise this was a forum for members only. I always thought of it as a public forum for people who like cars. I like cars especially toyotas and even their new models!
Les, could you give me a explanation as to how the 'old skool' celica is better that a NEW Falcon turbo?
my opinion? The celica has style but no substance. I think the only thing that makes the old celica half decent is the motor from another toyota or car that goes into it. nothing special, just a cheap donor car. nothing wrong with that though.
I get the impression from some of these comments that anything not toyota is a heap of shit. well sorry but thats not true, especially nowadays.
You want toyota to make proper sports cars again? will you be able to afford them? then whats the point in toyota spending millions on a sports car that few will buy, when they can make millions on a normal car. they sell what people want and can afford.
I suppose we all can be a little narrow minded and biased sometimes...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:46
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| rdraginrolla wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 12:28 |
I get the impression from some of these comments that anything not toyota is a heap of shit. well sorry but thats not true, especially nowadays.
You want toyota to make proper sports cars again? will you be able to afford them? then whats the point in toyota spending millions on a sports car that few will buy, when they can make millions on a normal car. they sell what people want and can afford.
I suppose we all can be a little narrow minded and biased sometimes...
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It's a Toyota forum, of course there's gonna be some bias!
It's not that no other manufacturer makes good cars, it's just that the XR6 Turbo's engine is a low revving engine which means it doesn't belong in a sports car.
And there's nothing about Toyota's sports cars being expensive. The Celica and MR2 are in the same price range. If only the Celica was RWD and the MR2 had a roof, came in manual and came with the 2ZZ-FE.
And these are purpose built sports cars, not some glorified taxi cab, for the same price.
For the same price, there's also the S15 and MX5.
Has anyone noticed that I hate Falcadores?
Did I mention build quality yet?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 01:58
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Ok,
I don't think that the new Turbo XR6 is that bad at all.
AND
The Celica is a freaking hairdressers car, FWD, it has a bit of power on tap but err no. The MR2 Spider, its a mid-life crisis posers car. Its well crap. My 2cents.
And yes, the build quality on Falcons/Commodores are crap, BUT i was following a Fairmont yesterday, and was having a good look at the qual, and from what I saw, I honestly think it wasn't that bad.
As far as the engine not revving high and shouldn't be in a sports car, take a look at the Supra and Soarers. My 7MGTE is redlined just over 6000 (6250-6500??)according to the instrument panel. Comparing it to a 2 ltr twin turbo 6 which is a small capacity high revving ngine that produces crap all torque isn't fair!
I would much rather the extra torque on tap rather than having to rev the F$%^ out of it ! Hence the reason why I got a 7MGTE not a 1GGTE in the Soarer.
It all comes down to personal opinions, no-ones really right or wrong here. How does the saying go?
"What does running in the special olympics and fighting on the Internet have in common? Even if you win you still are a retard!"
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 02:23
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| rvrolla wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 12:58 |
The Celica is a freaking hairdressers car, FWD, it has a bit of power on tap but err no. The MR2 Spider, its a mid-life crisis posers car. Its well crap. My 2cents.
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As I said, if only the Celica was RWD.
And the MR2 honestly isn't that bad. Shame about the lack of roof. And the fact that they're not sold in manual form in Australia.
| rvrolla wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 12:58 |
As far as the engine not revving high and shouldn't be in a sports car, take a look at the Supra and Soarers. My 7MGTE is redlined just over 6000 (6250-6500??)according to the instrument panel. Comparing it to a 2 ltr twin turbo 6 which is a small capacity high revving ngine that produces crap all torque isn't fair!
I would much rather the extra torque on tap rather than having to rev the F$%^ out of it ! Hence the reason why I got a 7MGTE not a 1GGTE in the Soarer.
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Didn't I say that I wasn't comparing to the 1G? I'm talking about engine characteristics.
You wouldn't want a 1G in a Soarer, but at the same time you wouldn't want a 7M in a Celica.
Horses for courses.
A sports car is supposed to sacrifice some low end torque for some top end power. Not to the extent of Honda engines, but a 6000rpm rev limiter is just bullshit.
And redlining at 6250-6500 is a totally different story to being limited at 6000... Especially when you're talking about an engine that was in cars in the 80's. You can forgive the 7M because it was prolly designed 20 years ago.
| rvrolla wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 12:58 |
It all comes down to personal opinions, no-ones really right or wrong here. How does the saying go?
"What does running in the special olympics and fighting on the Internet have in common? Even if you win you still are a retard!"
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Yeah, but it can be damn fun!
And I'm only getting warmed up. hehe
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Location:
Blacktown Bro
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 02:25
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If you want a high revving big capacity engine, buy a Ferrari or Lamboghini. Vroom Vroom
(WARNING WARNING: Ferrari and Lamboghini is not a Toyota. Its a completely different car!)
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bom bom bom bom bom! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 02:42
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Well push rod V8s are commonly reffered to as "Sports Cars" but do they rev out hard?? Err no. Its in your opinion that sports cars should rev out longer.
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Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 02:57
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NARK: Ummmm where did you see the confirmation of the TURBO ECHO hitting our shores?? Because as far as I know it is not comming!! 
I really need to know, NOW if you have seen a confirmation please direct me to if because it is very important!
Thanks Nark!!
Oh and by the way yeah the XR-6 is SHITE!! Ok I'll grant that the engine is pretty creamy power wise, however.... 25 year old engine with modern bits on it does not make it worth to call it GREAT!! Also love those comments about whining G/boxes and clunking diffs!!! LMFAO!!! BUILT FORD TOUGH....eh??
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Location:
Canada
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 03:01
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Lets just compare the new 600cc 13000RPM GSXR engine to the Ford 302 then, shall we?
For the unwashed masses (non Toyota crowd) I have owned/raced/or at least driven most types of Toyota sports vehicles from the late 70's versions to the early 2000's.
My personal favorite chassis of ALL cars I have driven (haven't got into a 928 yet) is the RA65GTS Celica. I drove the damn wheels off that car and it did *everything* I asked it to. I compare all new vehicles (any MFGR) to my old/loved Toyotas, since I figure that with all the engineering available, they should at LEAST be able to compare, if not beat them.
Nope.
I happen to like the 22RE engine, since I had one and it worked quite well for me. As to revving - I absolutely hate being *required* to rev the snot out of an engine to get going. Might be nice, but I don't have access to 6 speed sequential gearboxes either. Damn. So my 22R I tuned for 3500-5500 RPM, and drove it in the 4000-5000 range when driving hard. The "truck" heavy flywheel helped the launches.
As to the 1/2JZs - people, should engineers NOT be able to beat the technology (therefore performance) of a 10 year old design? Jeeez billy! The Jags in the 60's had DOHC twincams that were approaching 100HP/L....
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 03:01
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My friend's Torana (308) runs regularly to 7000rpm and has seen 8000rpm... standard bottom end (balanced tho).
Just thought I'd throw that in. Dont know why tho.
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Location:
Canada
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 03:36
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methinks 'speedcore' has seen my "deviant80" persona's sig on emails... lmao!
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Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 03:55
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Nah I took it off one of my RAVER friends shirts.... plus you should talk you SATAN WORSHIPPER!!!
"TAKE THAT YOU EVIL SPAWN OF..... SATAN!!!!!!" 
Man worship the MDMA!!     And fuck P.L.U.R.!!!  P.L.U.R. is what all the noob KANDY KIDD KROWD tries to maintain in the Rave scene. They say shit like, "If everyone took E at the same time in the world they would all realize we are all the same and world peace would start from there!!"
But meh laughs..... I think they are forgetting about the COMEDOWN where half the world would kill eachother cause they can't handle comming down!!!! LOL
Remember kiddies, WHAT GOES UP... MUST COMEDOWN!!!
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 04:50
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Phew! Back from lunch!
I've been accused of feeding the trolls, but since I don't get to have my regular "discussions" with Mos on the Toymods mailing list any more, I've gotta get my fix somehow.... hehe
Anyway, where was I?
| rvrolla wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 13:42 |
Well push rod V8s are commonly reffered to as "Sports Cars" but do they rev out hard?? Err no. Its in your opinion that sports cars should rev out longer.
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"Sports cars" or taxi cabs? hehe
And, yes, it is my opinion. Building a "sports car" with a 6,000rpm limiter is like making a FWD "sports car"... Uh huh, here comes another flamewar.... 
| SPEEDCORE wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 13:57 |
NARK: Ummmm where did you see the confirmation of the TURBO ECHO hitting our shores?? Because as far as I know it is not comming!!
I really need to know, NOW if you have seen a confirmation please direct me to if because it is very important!
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From what I remember, I read in in Motor. I can check when I get home on the weekend if you want. Or you could pop into a newsagency...
| FreaK wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 14:01 |
I happen to like the 22RE engine, since I had one and it worked quite well for me. As to revving - I absolutely hate being *required* to rev the snot out of an engine to get going. Might be nice, but I don't have access to 6 speed sequential gearboxes either. Damn. So my 22R I tuned for 3500-5500 RPM, and drove it in the 4000-5000 range when driving hard. The "truck" heavy flywheel helped the launches.
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Have you driven an RA6x with any other engine in it?
If you ever come over here, I'll let ya have a go in my car. We'll see how much you like 22R-Es after that. 
| Sam wrote on Wed, 05 February 2003 14:01 |
My friend's Torana (308) runs regularly to 7000rpm and has seen 8000rpm... standard bottom end (balanced tho).
Just thought I'd throw that in. Dont know why tho.
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Now Sam, you're just trying to start trouble... I should be talking.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 05:01
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Of course you could always get a 1UZ and rev it to 6500...or 7000...or 7500...or 8000?
And all that in 4.0 litres.
Of course, that is a PROPERLY designed-from-scratch engine...not a hanger-on from the 60's
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Location:
Blacktown Bro
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: XR6 Turbo (rant)
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Wed, 05 February 2003 05:06
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..............NEWS FLASH..............NEWS FLASH.................
Extract from Sydney Morning Herald 05/02/2003
A guy named Billy* from Toymods Car Club has shed his bias and narrow mindedness to realise that a turbo engine in a 'old skool'** celica does not make it the best sports car in the world.
In his letter he has noted that there is more to a car including handling, braking, refinement, something Billy said the 70's early 80's celica lacked.
He said after meeting members of the club on their forum and liasing with members at meetings etc, he said they were more concerned about the engine in the toyota than the car and its dynamics, therefore being critical of any other manufacturers engine, sometimes labelling them simply as Crap. He also said that after purchasing a Toyota, owners were often not happy with the engine and would swap it for something more modern and powerful out of a later model toyota. According to Billy this occurred often with Celica owners.
*Billy is not former members real name to protect his identity and he doesnt suffer road rage.
**old skool is a term often used by car enthusiasts to describe a car as something special, a classic when in fact it is just a old heap of shit.
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