Author | Topic |
Location: Sydney
Registered: October 2002
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Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:10
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I was just wondering if anyone knows what is the fastest 1JZGTE powered car in Oz at the moment.
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Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:17
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Not sure, but Manny's JZZ30 (275???-odd RWKW) must be close...
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Location: Sydney
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:31
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Not knocking Manny's car cos 275rwkw is Awsome but the soarer is a FAT bastard of a car, 1700kg or so I think?
Surely an old celica would be a good contender considering they are so light??
With $20-30K I reckon my 1J creesi could have that title!
Now where do I get $20-30k from???????
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:32
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How about the Japanese Motorsports drag Soarer? Old MZ10 with a vvti 1JZGTE and BIG Blitz turbo setup.
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I supported Toymods
Location: I renounced punctuation
Registered: May 2002
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Location: Sydney
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:42
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Fair Call. What times does that JMS car run anyway?
What about street registered?
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I supported Toymods
Location: I renounced punctuation
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:44
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11.83 with semi trailing arm IRS.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Perth
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 05:44
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Sorry, it was SArd you are right GT. I'd imagine that you could register it, it was older than 15 years, thats why they bought it...
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Location: Wollongong
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 February 2003 06:14
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Martin Donnon of HPI fame is running a 1JZ Soarer with big single turbo conversion running around 300rwkw.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: January 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location: Central Coast
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Thu, 13 February 2003 14:53
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Does anyone know what Joes MX73 is at now?!
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Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sat, 15 February 2003 04:14
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i reckont mines the fastest 150kw 1J
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sat, 15 February 2003 07:41
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The JMS soarer was parted out long ago. Turbos were for sale anyway.
Joes mx73 will run in the 10's soon.
Martin Donnon is full of shit.
Congrats Manny, I had no idea you had developed you car so far, are you still running those modded stock turbo's? I'd be real keen to check it out / chat.
If anyone thinks they have a quick 01j they should get themselves up to newcastle to see Celicamad. He has a seriously well sorted mx83 and timing equipement (not g-tech) as well as a DEEP pool of knowlege, and records for other cars run on the same road same conditions.
Gives a good indication of where you stand.
Dont go up there expecting to blow him away though, unless you can consistently run in the mid 4's 0-100.
Matt
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Location: newcastle
Registered: June 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sun, 16 February 2003 05:08
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Actually i think Manny's soarer would be a Bloody quick car
and with that power figure a good set of slicks and a good launch could easily run low 12's
GREAT RESULT MANNY
A lot of people BAG heavy cars but you all forget about one thing.....Traction
The Cressdia has run its fastest times with a total weight(including driver) of 1650 KG and 50 KG over each wheel extra would NOT slow it one bit !!!IN fact the added traction would roughly even out the weight .
The Biggest thing effecting the 1j times is how hard it can be launched
Martin donnan IS full of shit you need only look at the claimed RWKW figures IN HPI for a stock soarer and that dyno reads about 12% too high
so take about 30 KW of his claimed results ...his 1/4 mile times speak for themselves
Joeys Cressida is still in the development stages but a quick run in it the other night was well........IMPRESSIVE..
I would guess it to be about 1/2 a second quicker 0-100 than my Cressida .ANd 1/4 mile well like his number plate says CYA
As is now with final tuning still to come it makes around 250 RWKW with an extra 5 psi boost to yet be added .I have no Doubt this setup will make 300+++ RWKW VERY SOON
ANYONE that wants a shot at the title can email me
celicamad@hotmail.com
(your welcome to come up and use my gear for free)
But Joeys Cressida (with stock twins) still hold's the trophy for 12.9 secs 1/4 mile on a street track (no where near the traction of eastern creek)and not downhill (slightly)like the creek and im second with 13.02
Im pretty sure he has run 12.80 at the creek (stock twins)
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sun, 16 February 2003 07:18
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I might come visit you and have a look-see at your setup. Wouldn't want a shot at the title, but if I'm ever up there I'd like to see waht a ij can be made into (and what it takes in money and time from someone who's been there )
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Location: newcastle
Registered: June 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 17 February 2003 00:32
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Mines really not that special .it runs stock turbos ,stock Intercooler ,factory ecu .In fact the only mod is the twin pipes and my home made boost controller and a FCD.Yokahama 215/50/16 tyres
blokes come up here with big intercooler, ecu boost controller massive rear tyres and go home telling me im full of shit it CANT be that stock becausse i blow them silly
Its as simple as this its a low klm engine thats gets an oil change EVREY 3-5000 KLMS ,BIG tranny cooler ,good fluid ,new plugs every 5,000 KLMS and GOOD cold air induction .Good fuel and octane booster
Its honestly all in the setup
The twin pipes got the 0-100 time down to 5.3 seconds at 15 psi boost
The real secret is the boost controll system if you look at the power graph below you can see the power in second shoot up REAL fast then drop then come back up again under load .
This is at 17 psi
with me the pram and baby seat the car weighs 1655 KG
The trick is getting it on boost so fast .This gets you moving thats the real trick .
1j's suffer BADLY from wastegate creep i have NEVER seen an EBC even come close to the same result as a properly setup pneumatic system
in second gear power PEAKED at 275 rwhp
Have a look at the power curve for 1st gear above then the one below see the drop at around 2.5 seconds this is wastegate creep
boost continues to fall off all the way to peak power .
In the graph above peak power is made almost 1/2 a second sooner
The problem with EBC is once youve reached peak boost there is no guarantee you will hold it
Same car same engine etc same PEAK boost of 15 psi different boost control
the car now runs consistent 4.8 0-100 with 17 psi boost
the graph below is at 15 psi
The boost controller made it 1/2 a second quicker 0-100 than the car was using a turbosmart or EBC
Most 1js that i race are actually making more power and are catching me towards the end of the quarter but its all too late
The entire Engine and car package cost me $15,000 Including mags and tyres insurance the LOT
Thanx for the wrap MATT but the mods are VERY minor .with a big FMIC and a better fuel mix (VERY RICH at present) it would be easy to get this down below 4.5 secs
[Updated on: Mon, 17 February 2003 01:16]
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Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 17 February 2003 01:02
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i'll come up soon cause i gotta pay grant a visit (pick up my tacho converter:)) so we can go for a little cressi cruz and scare the locals
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 17 February 2003 04:02
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I'm after a tacho converter too... when you heading up?
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Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 17 February 2003 08:25
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well im off work on sunday so maybe then if grant is cool with it that is
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 17 February 2003 08:46
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ah well, you'll have it on your own then
I work sunday
should organise a toymods cruise up there
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Location: newcastle
Registered: June 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 00:24
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Actually thats been done before and again your all welcome (we can have another BBQ or something)but .if you want to do runs remember your using a public road.So im happy to let you use my gear but probably only two or three cars each day or the locals will complain.
Otherwise at Dubbo (the Nationals) ANY car entering the drags can use the dyno plus as many times as they like .I'll have a laptop and a printer there so you can take ur printout home with you
The tacho converter is great your launch is MUCH better when you can stall to the exact same rpm each time
Email me when your ready..Sunday cool with me
Note some of the times so far
Note the GTech on very fast(hard launching cars reads about 2-3 tenths too quick)however on anything above 6 secs they both agree .The squat from launching gives false reading on g tech
I have tested cars that the owners SWEAR ran 1/2 a second faster on the g tech ( and even had both in car at the same time)
EG g tech 4.9 dyno plus 5.2
YOJiMBO's Supra 0-100 5.3 secs(with passenger)
Andys supra 0-100 5.2 secs (when auto)
Joey 4.9 secs 0-100(stock auto)
Dave MC neal GT4 5.4 secs 0-100
Soarer 15 psi 3 inch exhaust 6.3 secs 0-100(auto)
Craigs 1jz Commodore 5.3 (with wheelspin)
Ra23 Celica 1ggte boost fmic ecu(200 rwhp) 5.7 secs
Frankie's supra 5.4 15 psi exhaust 1jz ( many mods since this time)
Skyline GTS boosted big FMIC 7.3 (BEST run)7.6 avg
Rb20 in hilux with gt28 turbo 9 psi boost 7.7 secs
NEW V6 Commodore 8.9 secs chip exhaust
WRX sti (old style) mrt computer,turbo ,big boost FMIC 5.4 secs
Stock mx83 8.4 secs ...YEP bog stock did 10 runs slowest 8.9
Cordia turbo with VR4 Engine(stock 12 psi) 7.8 secs
RX4 13b turbo (boost and FMIC) 6.3 secs
Celica RA23 1ggze 6.1 secs
RA40 3sgte 6.7 secs( boosted fmic high flow turbo plenum mods etc)
18rg turbo 8.1 secs ($8,000 spent)
GTS 300 (2001 model) 6.3 secs( cant drive for shit should be 5.5)
Supra 7mgte 3 inch exhaust boost 7.5 secs
Rb 20 in skyline(early model) 8.5 secs
MR2 turbo water to air i/c boost unichip 3 inch exhaust 6.4secs(5000 rpm launch)
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I supported Toymods
Location: Central Coast
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 02:05
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Sweet ! See you at Dubbo!
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 08:47
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"The tacho converter is great your launch is MUCH better when you can stall to the exact same rpm each time "
afvantage of a manual.... if you muck the start, fixing it is just a slight depression of the clutch away
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Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 08:55
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yeah but i dont muck em up with the auto??? i could almost bet my g/f driving my car could take off faster that just about any manual 1J
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 08:57
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depends on the girlfriend I guess
I'm not suggesting a manual is faster in a drag (this debate has been covered before and I'm pretty sure I was backing the autos).
but I'm not willingh to sacrifice the fun of a manual just for a faster drag time.
in fact, if I wanted a drag car I wouldn't have bought a supra
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Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 09:18
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lol cool and i agree...ps... i just went auto cause it was soooo much easier and cheaper in the conversion....
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Location: newcastle
Registered: June 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 11:30
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Draven not picking on the manual like you say for fun factor a 1j manual is AWESOME
But the difference between a good launch and a bad launch in the auto is 5.1 instead of 4.8 .unlaunched its 5.3
i have to stall it above 2700 to get ANY wheelspin .Its the most forgiving car ive ever driven
Andy converted his Supra from auto to manual (for the fun factor)and has a WICKED clutch and better tyres at BEST its 3 tenths slower than what it was before (feels heaps faster but isnt .but ive heard its a drift weapon now)
The only reason its better with the tacho is i a can flash the stall to about 2700 rpm ..less stress on the tranny as well as a better launch
P.S my wife has LIMITED driving skills and only drives 1 day a week (at the most)for the last 8 years her best 0-100 is 5.08 and worst 5.3
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 18 February 2003 18:40
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a little off-topic, but i figure this post is attracting the 1jz nuts...
I'm about to install an LTX12 to run my 1jz. I've got a wiring diagram of the 1jz auto computer, but it's a little hard to understand. Can anyone help with either a .pdf file, or maybe if I yell out what pin numbers I need to know... any takers?
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Location: Cabramatta, NSW
Registered: May 2002
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Location: Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 19 February 2003 05:50
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would now be a good time to tell you sixworks has a manual ecu for sale????
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I supported Toymods
Location: Epping, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 19 February 2003 08:58
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hehehe
a month or 2 ago would have been nice... but since the ltx12 is sitting on my floor at the moment, I'm not terribly interested in getting a boring standard manual ecu anymore.
how much out of curiosity?
and max... someone already e-mailed me those (I didn't know they came from the toymods webpage.. great idea btw). that's how I already have most of them worked out.
the main problem is a lot of the pins are labelled in 3 letter abbreviations, some of which I have no idea what they stand for
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sat, 08 May 2004 06:24
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*back from the dead*
so it looks from the thread that the fastest stock twins 1jz car is running 12.8 back then. Any improvements since then? Anyone know of a car that runs faster than that with stock twins?
thanks
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 10 May 2004 02:50
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so we are saying that 12.80 is the quickest then!
Very good
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Location: Carlingford, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 May 2004 02:47
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i get the feeling HYP077 ran into the low 11's at WSID last week
im sure other ppl know more about it
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 May 2004 03:58
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EMP-2TG wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 12:47 | i get the feeling HYP077 ran into the low 11's at WSID last week
im sure other ppl know more about it
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thanks mate.
what sort of car is this? Does anyone know if it has steel wheel upgrades or still ceramic? thanks
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Location: Carlingford, Sydney
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 May 2004 04:16
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ra23, with a big single
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 May 2004 09:59
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u gonna try to give it a knock at the drags in a few weeks chris
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 11 May 2004 10:51
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sure am! just trying to see who is the quickest with stock turbos. got no chance against those big single boys!
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Location: nz
Registered: June 2004
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:18
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I now how got the fastest 1jz in nz with a 12.69 and 184km with only 226kw but now i have put a to4r turbo on it and got it dyno last week and got 304kw on low boost but not had it on the strip yet.
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Location: newcastle nsw
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 14 September 2004 23:34
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theres a certain celica in newcastle that made 260 odd kw on standard turbos
i think paul would have more info on it
as for big single 1js the jt racing ute is knocking on the door of a 10sec pass
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Location: New Zealand
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 15 September 2004 11:25
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audi man wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 22:18 | I now how got the fastest 1jz in nz with a 12.69 and 184km with only 226kw but now i have put a to4r turbo on it and got it dyno last week and got 304kw on low boost but not had it on the strip yet.
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You must be joking right?
http://www.quest4.co.nz/main.html
Quest 4 Corona is almost 2.5 seconds quicker.
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Location: New Zealand
Registered: May 2002
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 15 September 2004 15:47
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bit of apples and oranges there I think.
what sounds like a mildly modded street 1jz
VS
car with TA51 turbo
NOS
C4 trans
4 link rear end and slicks
nevertheless, I understand what you are saying
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 09:10
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*back from the dead again*
Just found out about this fella who has a big single turbo 1jz in a Sigma. Here is a pic
and this is what he had to say
Quote: | Thanks for your replys so far. I had the same set up in my 83 supra before it split the body and started pulling the diff cradel out, the supra weighed a little over 1200 KGs and ran a 10.5 quarter so i would think that the pigma would run somthing the same. The sigma weighs just on 1000 KGs with the 1J in it. traction is the only thing that would slow me down. The turbo is a GT35.40
engine manigement is microtec LTX12, 55 mm waste gate, 550cc injectors on custom fuel rail, 272 cams,ported head, falcon throtle body plus many other goodes from japan. transmission is a supra five speed behind a costom made flywheel that friend made for me. 3 plate cooper button clutch, the diff is a VN commadore diff i only used it beacuse it was already in the car when i bought it still its stronger than the sigma diff, bakes are slightly bigger they are off a magna, suspention is a set of king springs and koni shocks coil under and overs are on the christmas list. great to get some feed back from you guys.
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That would make it the quickest in Oz right? Pending actual proof of course
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Location: Sydney
Registered: March 2003
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 12:30
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Chris man, wasnt it you, that posted a Soarer ran 9.8 at willo last week? Or was that 2J'ed?
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 21:22
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yeah, that was either 1.5jz or 2jz.
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I supported Toymods
Location: Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered: September 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 23:44
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Heres another 1jz sigma in perth, unsure of specs though
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Location: sydney
Registered: June 2004
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 00:59
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the most rwkw ive seen come out of a 1j soarer was 332rwkw single turbed
i was jelous ; so i went and did it my self
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 02:27
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eviljack: thanks for that. Looks very interesting. Looks like it is running a joiner manifold for on the stock exhaust manifolds there and some sort of different throttle body setup.
I will have to let this fella know as he was wondering if there are any other 1jz powered sigmas around
count 7m-gte: That is a pretty good number mate. On supraforums the other day, a fella put a dyno up of a 1jz making 830rwhp!!! That is a US dyno so it reads higher than ours but that is still amazing. Unfortunately, the Americans are very secretive about their engines which sucks the big one for people trying to learn
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Location: NSW, East Coast
Registered: July 2003
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 10:27
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Wasnt there a White Rodeo (i think it was a rodeo) with a 450hp (330ish kw) 1j in it.
And i believe there is a blue mx73 1j with about 460hp (345ish kw), at the wheels or motor im not 100% but i think it was atw, i could be wrong.
Cheers
Steve
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Location: Toronto, Downtown
Registered: September 2004
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:48
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Guest wrote on Sat, 15 February 2003 18:41 | The JMS soarer was parted out long ago. Turbos were for sale anyway.
Joes mx73 will run in the 10's soon.
Martin Donnon is full of shit.
Matt
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y bagg out Martin Donnon do u have a 1jz making more than 300rwkw?
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 21:34
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February 2003 mate!
BTW I don't think that fella is on these boards anymore as it says "guest"
And also, I think you are referring to the white Navara. That is the JT racing one.
Don't know about this cressida though. Anymore details?
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Location: opening a can of whoop ass
Registered: June 2004
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 07 December 2004 04:53
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i think it would appear to be as follows form digging up old forums
11.3 ET 123 MPH 1J NAVARA UTE JT AUTOGAS-SOLID AXLE-man
11.55 ET ?MPH 1J COMMODORE UTE-SOLIDAXLE-auto
11.8 ET 119 MPH 1J CRESSIDA 747 - IRS-auto
12.35 ET 114MPH 1J VK COMMODRE - SOLID AXLE-auto
12.69 ET ? MPH 1J SOARER NZ- IRS-?
12.87 ET 109MPH 1J CRESSIDA JOEY?-IRS-auto
13.03 ET 108MPH 1J CRESSIDA 747-IRS-auto
13.4 ET ? MPH BLACK JZA70-IRS-man
13.6 ET 106MPH 1J SOARER SUPRAMAN- IRS-auto
13.8 ET 104MPH 1J JZA70 WA PLATES-IRS-MAN
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Location: I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered: November 2003
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 07 December 2004 07:01
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..J.. wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 15:53 | i think it would appear to be as follows form digging up old forums
.
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13.4 ET ? MPH BLACK JZA70-IRS-man
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Twas me !! @108 MPH - Standard turbos - Also prepared by JT Mechanical
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Location: I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered: November 2003
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 07 December 2004 07:07
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You can also add.
13.3 @ 109 MPH JZA70 SICO1J - IRS - Man (JT Mechanical prepared)
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Location: Brunswick, W.A.
Registered: December 2003
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 07 December 2004 10:32
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yeah that white sigma is in bunbury. From Adrenalin Motorsports. I saw it at a dyno day put out 350RWHP. Not sure what time down the quarter George put out though. But it sounds very mean. I think the turbo thats on it is a turbonetics T76? or something close to that. It is a turbonetics though.
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Location: sunny coast, qld
Registered: October 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Tue, 07 December 2004 12:52
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..J.. wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 15:53 | i think it would appear to be as follows form digging up old forums
11.55 ET ?MPH 1J COMMODORE UTE-SOLIDAXLE-auto
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awesome work mate!
That commo ute was at 120.5 mph.
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Location: opening a can of whoop ass
Registered: June 2004
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 08 December 2004 00:53
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11.3 ET 123 MPH 1J NAVARA UTE JT AUTOGAS-SOLID AXLE-man
11.55 ET ?MPH 1J COMMODORE UTE ?-SOLIDAXLE-auto
11.8 ET 119 MPH 1J CRESSIDA 1JZ747 - IRS-auto
12.35 ET 114MPH 1J VK COMMODRE GIHOOK- SOLID AXLE-auto
12.69 ET ? MPH 1J SOARER NZ- IRS-?
12.87 ET 109MPH 1J CRESSIDA 321CYA-IRS-auto
13.03 ET 108MPH 1J CRESSIDA 1JZ747-IRS-auto
13.3 ET 109MPH 1J JZA70 SICO1J-IRS-AUTO
13.4 ET 109 MPH BLACK JZA70 SPECIAL ED-IRS-man
13.6 ET 106MPH 1J SOARER SUPRAMAN- IRS-auto
13.8 ET 104MPH 1J JZA70 WA PLATES-IRS-MAN
UPDATE LIST.
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Location: Brisbane
Registered: July 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 08 December 2004 02:05
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I reckon i could crack the top 5 of that list
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I supported Toymods
Location: Central Coast
Registered: May 2002
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Re: Fastest 1JZ in OZ?
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Wed, 08 December 2004 02:13
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Coulda shoulda woulda
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